[Game mechanic]When does a trap/mine stop being a trap/mine

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Chris wrote:

The Trap and Mine support gems now have multiplicative damage bonuses that are specific to traps and mines respectively. This means that you can't cast a skill through a trap and a mine for double bonuses. In addition, Trap and Mine damage bonuses now do not benefit minions cast through traps or mines.

What does that mean exactly? There are a lot of secondary effects in poe, so im really not sure how long a skill is considered a trap or mine. I know a skill looses its trap/mine tag (and so the trap/mine damage bonus), if:

• it becomes a trap (this one only applies to mines oc)
• it becomes a minion
• ?it becomes a totem? (read this somewhere but couldnt find it in the patch notes)

Is there any other scenario? Like does poison arrow's cloud benefit from trap damage if it came from a trap? Or does the ignite damage of a trap (eg: fireball trap) double scale with trap damage (more ignite base damage on impact + more burn damage)? What about the ignite damage of a burning arrow's explosion? (which is a secondary effect of a secondary effect of a trap)

Sorry if it has been asked before, couldn't find a clear answer on that.

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masterada wrote:

"

Chris wrote:

The Trap and Mine support gems now have multiplicative damage bonuses that are specific to traps and mines respectively. This means that you can't cast a skill through a trap and a mine for double bonuses. In addition, Trap and Mine damage bonuses now do not benefit minions cast through traps or mines.

What does that mean exactly? There are a lot of secondary effects in poe, so im really not sure how long a skill is considered a trap or mine. I know a skill looses its trap/mine tag (and so the trap/mine damage bonus), if:

• it becomes a trap (this one only applies to mines oc)
• it becomes a minion
• ?it becomes a totem? (read this somewhere but couldnt find it in the patch notes)

Is there any other scenario? Like does poison arrow's cloud benefit from trap damage if it came from a trap? Or does the ignite damage of a trap (eg: fireball trap) double scale with trap damage (more ignite base damage on impact + more burn damage)? What about the ignite damage of a burning arrow's explosion? (which is a secondary effect of a secondary effect of a trap)

Sorry if it has been asked before, couldn't find a clear answer on that.

u get the trap mine bonus if:
trap / mine + skill

but u wont benifit from doing:
mine + trap + skill

trap + skill = u get the bonus dmg

mine + trap + skill = u only get 1 bonus (i rly dont know which one but i would guess the trap)

the whole reason behind this change was to disallow different entities (minion and totems) spawned via trap to get the damage bonus. It says "more trap damage" instead of general "more damage". Thus all damage that is dealt directly by the trap gets the bonus. this includes secondary effect of all skills, they still count as direct damage done by a trap

There's a nice rule of thumb about this now, if trap/mine passives would affect the damage of the skill - then mine/trap support gem bonus will affect it too.

In other words, if the effect that trap produces does any damage it will get a damage bonus, if it doesn't - it won't.

Your fireball trap does damage when triggered, so it will get the bonus to all damage that results from it, ignite or whatever is included.
But summoning a totem or minion doesn't do any damage by itself, you summon it and then the minion does the damage, not the trap. Technically it's not an exception to any rules, your minion and totem will spawn with 'more trap damage' they inherited from the trap support, but it won't do them any good as they don't use traps.

explanation:

trap+coldsnap

coldsnap = cold / spell

lets say it does 100 dmg

trap = +20% dmg bonus
(just random numbers)

if u link:
trap+coldsnap
1,2*100=120dmg

if u add spell dmg it get multiplied aswell!

lets say u have 100%spelldmg
trap+coldsnap
1,2*100=120
120*2=240

lets say u have just 100% trapdmg
trap+coldsnap
2,2*100=240


now we get into account BOTH 100% trap and spell dmg!
trap+coldsnap
2,2*200=440

if u have lets say 50% increased cold dmg the dmg would be
440*1,5=660

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XRacKS wrote:

explanation:

trap+coldsnap

coldsnap = cold / spell

lets say it does 100 dmg

trap = +20% dmg bonus
(just random numbers)

if u link:
trap+coldsnap
1,2*100=120dmg

if u add spell dmg it get multiplied aswell!

lets say u have 100%spelldmg
trap+coldsnap
1,2*100=120
120*2=240

lets say u have just 100% trapdmg
trap+coldsnap
2,2*100=240


now we get into account BOTH 100% trap and spell dmg!
trap+coldsnap
2,2*200=440

if u have lets say 50% increased cold dmg the dmg would be
440*1,5=660

^ well, this is the exact description of how it does not work at all :/

basic rule is:
increased/reduced allways additive
more/less allways multiplicative

so if I use cold snap linked with trap as an example:

damage = base * (1 + increased_spell + inc_cold + inc_elemental + inc_AoE + inc_trap) * more_trap_from_support * more_from_whatever_other_source_eg_conc_effect

ok... o.0 havent played trapper that much but i always thought thats the scaling... o0

ok

trap= more *
trap lets say again 100% increased dmg
trap= 1,2 (at lvl 6)
Trap + increased = 1,4???


spell + cold dmg = increased
increased spell dmg 100%
increased cold dmg 50%

oldsnap = 100 (base)


100*1,4+(100*2,5)=???

im totally confused now >.<

it is unrelated to build. this general rule applies to all mechanics. "Increased" modifiers from all sources are sumed up into one multiplier. "more" modifiers are allways multipliers. Look at example in my previous post, should be clear from it