Physical Reflect Vs. Ondar's Guile

Assuming I am evasion capped with Ondar's Guile (95%) - why would I need to take Acrobatics to combat physical reflect?

My guildies assured me that I would need more than 95% chance to evade projs to be immuned to physical reflect, on a crit bow build... but why is this?

Armor mitigation + 40 life gain on hit / 10% life leech + 95% chance to evade projectiles seems like more than enough to avoid reflect on a crit build. Am I wrong?

I really do not want to take acrobatics just because I want to stack some armor in fear of getting 1 shot by rhoas or big hitters in a desync/bad scenario.

Any input, feedback or experience is appreciated - thanks.

I ran a Phys wander using Ondars and 40% block (Perandus) as my only reflect defence and it was fine. I guess if you're absolutly stacking crit multi one might sneak through occasionally that hurts.

edit: and by fine I mean to lv 90, in hc.

Acrobatics won't save you.

If you can 1-shot yourself with reflect, then that will still be the case with Acrobatics, just that you will be hit a bit less often. (If you're at that obscene, 1-shotting map bosses level of damage, then Immortal Call is basically your only option.)

If you can't actually do much damage to yourself *per hit* on reflect, then don't worry, you'll hit yourself infrequently enough that it's not a problem. You can get Acrobatics, but you don't have to.

It's important to note though that when you are trying to evade reflected damage, you are fighting against your own accuracy. Chances are, your accuracy is much higher than a typical monster's accuracy, so your evasion is a lot less effective than it looks on the character sheet.

Ondar's won't save phys crit bow users. Look for the accuracy vs evasion formula, and plug your own numbers in it. Assuming you like having high accuracy (who doesn't), you'll find that your chance to evade your own projectile will end up between 5-10%. Maybe 15% if you have particularly good evasion rating. Double that with Ondar's... and it still suck. If you crit a reflect pack at end game, you'll kill yourself, I promise.

But there's a trick! CwDT + IC + EC will solve all your problems. Level the gems a little though.

Reflect isn't a projectile, so Ondars Guile will do nothing if I'm not mistaken.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn3vPKkDh-E

Here is explained everything.

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Emphasy wrote:

Reflect isn't a projectile, so Ondars Guile will do nothing if I'm not mistaken.

You are mistaken. The damage counts as reflected whatever dealt that damage, projectile/melee/spell etc.

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Icholas wrote:

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Emphasy wrote:

Reflect isn't a projectile, so Ondars Guile will do nothing if I'm not mistaken.

You are mistaken. The damage counts as reflected whatever dealt that damage, projectile/melee/spell etc.

Maybe... this changed so often that it is quite confusing if you actually play since CB :P

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FaceLicker wrote:

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Lunares wrote:

it sounds like arrow dodging was meant to double the chance a year ago. What changed?

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Mark_GGG wrote:

...okay, so actually, it looks like it will double the chance to evade reflected damage if the thing reflecting the damage is using a bow/wand (i.e. it's regular attacks would be projectiles) because that check is made as though the reflector was making an attack against the reflectee. I'll need to do something about that.

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Mark_GGG wrote:

Because reflected damage is separate from what creates it, arrow dodging won't see it as projectile damage, just reflected damage, so you won't get the extra chance to evade from that.

Currently the check is made based on the enemy's accuracy.

Those are Marks Quotes (quoted by someone so I just quoted him :P)

The first quote is from 2012 if I'm not mistaken the second from April 2013. I can't find any recent post about Reflect and Ondars Guile. I think they changed Ondars Guile again a few months later (and actually called it Ondars Guile, it was called Arrow Dodging before, which was confusing since it evades and doesn't dodge).

And I finally also found a dev-post about it.

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/466848/page/2

So jepp you are right. Although it is still worse than before, since you have high accuracity. Originally reflect was based on the enemies Accuracity meaning Blind would reduce reflect damage. It was one of the changes that basically killed Melee-2h Evasion builds because they don't benefit from Ondars Guile in that way and just slaughter themself on reflect because their accuracity is fairly high and they can't block (although there might be a few 2h-Evasion builds left, but I don't know anybody playing one).

It definitely checks your accuracy vs your evasion

But it is not easy to make it work. In general, you have to sacrifice some accuracy no matter how big is your evasion. You also need to have high enough HP to survive occasional hits