Allow charges to be lengthened by the increased skill duration/buff duration/buff effect passives
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Enduring Cry and Endurance Charges should be "buffs", that's the only "buff" I could think of when reading the passive skills regarding duration of buffs, but it doesn't actually count as a buff.
The fact that they are located between the Marauder and Templar and very near an endurance charge keystone make it seem like that would fit as well. I don't really want that increased duration on the following skills which are somehow buffs: Immortal Call, Blood Rage, Phase Run, curses, Viper Strike, Explosion Arrow, Poison Arrow, Infernal Blow, Lightning Warp. The skills in bold actually get worse with duration. Needless to say, most of these skills do not have synergy with most Marauder or Templar builds. As for the other Skill Duration passives near the Ranger, I guess it's only for poison. I wouldn't mind it working for Frenzy and its charges, which are way more general. These nodes are too far away from the traditional caster classes to make use of for spells. " Why not charges? That would be helpful. This thread has been automatically archived. Replies are disabled.
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Charges are a seperate mechanic and have their own duration increases. By allowing regular buff passives to affect Charges, you're increasing their usefulness/potential/power. When things in this game become powerful, people eventually start to feel obligated to utilize such things to be the most effective and stay current with their peers. We've already had problems where nearly everyone was dependent on some type of charge or another and thats why they're in the state they are now. Charges are meant to be optional, if they get too powerful then the optional part kind of goes out the window.
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"Explosive arrow gets better and worse in different ways (more timer to stack more charges, giving you more chance to kite between uses, vs longer for the last one to go off). Lightning warp gets different, not necessarily worse, and infernal blow only gets better. There is literally no downside to infernal blow having longer duration on it's 'explode on death' debuff. "Because charges are clearly mechanically distinct and thus it's more intuitive that they have their own modifiers. That said, there are odd cases which I want to remove. Explosive Arrow is a good example, as it uses charge mechanics, but there are currently no duration modifiers which apply only to charges, so it uses buff/debuff duration so it can be modified. But this requires a bunch of refactoring and is low-priority at the moment. | |
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They aren't mechanically distinct at all. You get a little box timer and a beneficial status effect from Enduring Cry, and the other charge skills as well. This is identical to the very short flask buffs or the buff you get from Immortal Call.
The real issue I'm having here is with the semantics. I'm using a very common definition of "Buff" while the developers are using their internal technical definition. Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_effect#Buffs Now look at this: http://www.pathofexile.com/skills/strength Which are the buffs in that list? The auras obviously are buff skills, but they don't need extra duration. How could Enduring Cry not be considered a buff? Why are offensive skills like curses and poison considered buffs? These are most certainly debuffs and not categorized as buffs in any other game that I know. |
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"That's all about the interface, not the mechanics. Charges are different mechanically, meaning they use different code, an entirely different system in the game's engine, to do what they do. They look similar to buffs in the interface, but they're completely different mechanically. ""Debuffs" are negative buffs. So, they're still buffs and there's nothing wrong with calling them as such. "It doesn't have a timed effect. It performs an action, giving you endurance charges. That's all it does. The skill itself doesn't have a duration, so there's nothing to extend. Those charges aren't tied to that skill. They're just like endurance charges you'd get from any other source. Don't think of charges as buffs, because they're not in PoE. They could correctly be called that, but it's important to separate them from other buffs because they are a different system entirely. Closed Beta/Alpha Tester back after a 10-year hiatus.
First in the credits! |
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Right, it's not the same under the surface, and that's the problem. I would either change the wording on all these descriptions, or do something to homogenize the beneficial effects so they all work as buffs.
If someone gave a Templar some endurance charges, and it has the buff increase passive skills, why wouldn't someone expect those charges to benefit? It doesn't say "beneficial effects except for charges" it says "buffs". Expecting someone to know the underlying mechanics without the distinction in the interface is what I'm talking about. One thing or the other should change to match them up. What I would consider the general definition of "Buff" and "Skill Effect" should be clear by now. |
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