Dying to Bleed Despite having 100% Phys taken as Elemental

So, I'm at a genuine loss here. I keep on dying to bleed(s) despite having 100% of Phys taken as Ele.


The additional Debuffs shown are Eroding Touch and Marked for Death. I'm aware of the Diluting Touch Debuff - that wasn't at play in these deaths.

10% from a Korell Helmet mod, 24% from a Legacy Watcher's Eye, 27% from a Dawnbreaker (20% roll + 7% corruption), and 39% from a Legacy Taste of Hate thanks to +30% flask effect.

Add that up and it's exactly 100%.

Below are all the items in question



What's odd is that I don't get bleed to death if I take an addition 5% flask effect from the bottom "Mana and Flask Effect" node in the Ranger's starting area. That additional 5% puts me at 101% of Phys taken as Ele which eliminates this issue*. The only reason I even stumbled across this issue was a recent change in gear at the start of 3.26. Previously I was at 104% of Phys taken as Ele, and don't recall this being an issue.

Regardless of that, I shouldn't be being bled in the first place - only physical damage from hits can inflict bleed, and should be taking none. Despite that Bleeds are still somehow being inflicted on my character. It's only at 100%+ conversion that Bleeds are correctly not being applied.

*Sometimes - see examples below.

I do have an example of the 'Spinesnatcher' mob type causing bleeds on me though. However, it stops inflicting Bleeds if I take the additional 5% flask effect to have 101% Phys Taken as Ele.

https://youtu.be/RQkUoUcQsaE?t=149

I also have an example of the Knitted Horror mob type applying bleeds even with 101% Phys taken as ELE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88nI3jsGv4A

I'll gather more examples as I come across them.

"

LostArtz#3044 wrote:

and 39% from a Legacy Taste of Hate thanks to +30% flask effect.

I can't import to PoB atm, but where is the 30% flask effect coming from? If you're counting Pathfinder, it is not a magic flask. So I count 5% from a notable, and 20% from 4 small Pathfinder nodes, with the last 5% from the node you tested with. Without the node (unless I'm missing an effect somewhere), is 30 x 1.25 for 37%, plus the other items is 98%.

https://pobb.in/HLtK_Cob7f6d
Pantheon's are incorrect, but that doesn't make a difference. Currently using Brine King + Shakari.

+30% Flask effect for ToH is coming from:

20% from 4 travel Nodes from Pathfinder
5% from Mana and Flask effect above Primal Spirit
5% from Careful Conservationist

The additional 5% to hit 101% Phys taken as Ele was from the Mana and Flask effect node below Primal Spirit.

I can readily take that node to fix this issue, that's probably what I'll do for the time being. I'm just trying to understand why and how I'm being bled in the first place.

Ah, I forgot about those small nodes. Thanks.

Next question is does the bleed do any damage and what is bleeding you? From recollection when I did 100% phys taken as back in Affliction, I could still be bled for 0 damage. But only from specific sources which makes it harder as you never see it and then you see it. Asked a streamer who did 100% phys taken as on another setup and bleed traps for example do not hit, so not immune to bleed for those. Cannot recall other specific examples.

Yes, the bleeds were dealing enough damage to kill me multiple times while moving before realizing what was happening - thanks in part to the Marked for Death mod. As for what was Bleeding me - I don't know what specific mob type was causing bleeds in that map. I thought it was the Dust Scrabbler mob type so I did some testing in the Dried Lake zone from Act 4, but they didn't apply any bleeds.

I do have an example of the 'Spinesnatcher' mob type causing bleeds on me though. However, it stops inflicting Bleeds if I take the additional 5% flask effect to have 101% Phys Taken as Ele.

https://youtu.be/RQkUoUcQsaE?t=149

I also have an example of the Knitted Horror mob type applying bleeds even with 101% Phys taken as ELE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88nI3jsGv4A

I'll try to gather some more examples as I come across them.

I guess it's entirely possible this is a mob-type specific issue, just seems kinda odd to me that I'm only now noticing it.

Thanks for the videos. I'm completely stumped by this one.

I mentioned in chat and someone mentioned you specifically need 101% taken as to become bleed immune, but I have no documentation or resources to back that up (and 101% has a consequence of taking 1% more damage from over-conversion iirc).

I'm trying to think of other ways to prove it, and basically PvP is the only option, but idk if PvP scaling does anything in this scenario. Have a character with 100% bleed chance and at least some physical damage hit you. Most likely the same 5% node difference will do the same thing.

Then to go further you'd ideally rule out there's no weird flask changes as a result of the latest flask bug fix if this truly just now started. To do that would require using something like 40 Cloak, 27 Dawnbreaker, 24 Watcher's, and a 9 helmet. That puts you exactly at 100% taken as. Then put on the 10% helmet and check again with 101%. If the same logic still applies, then the 101% might be right unless someone else can comment a better reason.

Yay math /s

too long don't read

damage taken as FROM HITS

Bleed is DOT

"

neohongkong#0222 wrote:

too long don't read

damage taken as FROM HITS

Bleed is DOT

Ignoring the 101% theory and the few sources of bleeding without hitting, you don't bleed if the source HIT is 0 physical.

"

blackdeath101#5742 wrote:

"

neohongkong#0222 wrote:

too long don't read

damage taken as FROM HITS

Bleed is DOT

Ignoring the 101% theory and the few sources of bleeding without hitting, you don't bleed if the source HIT is 0 physical.

I can't remember the coding.

But it does not make sense if the monster deal physical damage only and have a chance to bleed , a player's defence layer "physcial damage taken from hits as elemental " suddenly stop bleed altogether


(I knew GGG once saying taking physical damage as lightning , can actually shook you anyway)




If you want to call it a bug, list in point form how many "taken as from hits" you have, and how many "taken as" which include DOT

"

neohongkong#0222 wrote:

But it does not make sense if the monster deal physical damage only and have a chance to bleed , a player's defence layer "physcial damage taken from hits as elemental " suddenly stop bleed altogether

Monster deals 1000 physical hit, 100% chance to bleed
Player converts all of the 1000 physical to elemental (ignoring res and reductions, irrelevant here).
Bleed only works with physical, so the source damage for the bleed is for 0 and is discarded.
If player only had 50% conversion, then the source of the bleed is 500, thus a 500 bleed would apply on top of the 500 physical and 500 converted hits.

Having only "from hits" instead of "taken as" means they are still susceptible to physical degens like corrupted blood or ground degens. But you can't inflict a bleed for 0 physical damage. There are other "taken as" builds that do this to become pseudo immune to specific ailments from hits because they take 0 of that specific elemental's damage as well. If you take 0 lightning damage from hits, the only way to be shocked is via shocked ground or enemy has all damage can shock.