Explosive arrow explosion crits don't increase damage or ailment damage?

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/f8kad8/comment/fim2kxo/?context=3

Mark really doesn't explain things very well

I want to make a crit poison EA build in one of these private leagues but it depends on the explosion critting.

thanks

If you stick 20 Explosive Arrows into an enemy and only one of them crits, then the explosion will be considered a critical hit for things that care about whether or not a hit is a Critical Strike (such as Power Charge on Critical Strike Support).

It won't boost the damage of the explosion as though all 20 arrows crit, is what Mark is saying. If only 1 of the 20 arrows was a crit, then you get an explosion based on 1 crit arrow and 19 normal arrows. If all 20 of the arrows crit, such as if you were under the effect of a Diamond Shrine, then you get an explosion based on 20 crit arrows.

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Explosive_Arrow

Jadian do you know how it works for Ignite? I'm reading the wiki but not completely clear on it. Does the ignite damage combine the damage of all hits that ignited? Or do they all ignite separately and the largest one counts? Or if any one ignites does it cause one big ignite for all the damage regardless if they rolled ignite or not?

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Hit damage and ailment dps from each arrow are then combined and applied as a single hit and debuff.[2]

I guess this means the first case I have stated, only the hits that ignited get combined for the ignite damage?

I have not played EA extensively before and it was a long time ago.

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Belegur85#5784 wrote:

Does the ignite damage combine the damage of all hits that ignited?

That's how the wiki describes it, yeah.

"Each arrow calculates its own damage, individually, including critical strike chance and chance to inflict damaging ailments."
In calculating the explosion's effects, each arrow can crit or inflict ailments individually.

"Hit damage and ailment dps from each arrow are then combined and applied as a single hit and debuff."
Then everything from the explosion arrows is combined and applied as a single hit, so you can inflict big ignites.

I haven't played much EA myself, but I assume the wiki is accurate since it was a big meta build ~2-3 years ago?

Yeah it would be well know, you are right. Probably makes more sense that way, or else you would basically get the ailments for free.

I was reading up about Dual strike the other day, when someone was asking about dual wielding. I think it works slightly differently for that skill. It is the same for the crit damage, but I think the ailment counts off the total damage even if only one of the two ailment rolls is satisfied.

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Jadian#0111 wrote:

It won't boost the damage of the explosion as though all 20 arrows crit, i/quote]

again. mark and wiki are awful at wording things.

so if I convert fire / have added chaos and take perfect agony, how would that work? if one crits do i get the full crit multi as damage over time? or should i just get 100% crit chance?

the way they make it sound is that crits do no extra damage no matter what. in fact i can't even find the base crit chance of ea

Base crit chance for EA would be based of the weapon as it is an attack wouldn't it?

I think for using prefect agony by the sounds of it it will only be doing poison damage on the portions where the crit roll is satisfied. I don't know for certain though.

Have you tried looking at this in POB at all? I wondering if it factors in these things in the damage calculation.

oof. right. been playing too many RT attacks and spells. idk why i thought it'd be on the skill.

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RevertHarvest#4002 wrote:

the way they make it sound is that crits do no extra damage no matter what.

If 0 of 20 arrows crit, the explosion's base damage is 20 normal arrow hits.
If 1 of 20 arrows crit with the base crit multiplier of 150%, the explosion's base damage is 20.5 normal arrow hits.

The arrows that are Critical Strikes do add damage to the explosion that is affected by critical modifiers. The explosion is also considered a Critical Strike, but the explosion being counted as a crit does not change the damage--each arrow in the explosion that crit has already been affected by critical modifiers, you don't get to apply them twice or apply them to the arrows that didn't crit.

In short:
The explosion doesn't double dip on crit multi.
The explosion doesn't make investment in crit chance worthless.

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RevertHarvest#4002 wrote:

so if I convert fire / have added chaos and take perfect agony, how would that work? if one crits do i get the full crit multi as damage over time? or should i just get 100% crit chance?

If 1 arrow in 20 crits, then that one can inflict Ignite/Poison (depending on its chance to poison). The explosion will inflict whichever damaging ailment this arrow does--because the arrow crit, the explosion is counted as a crit, so it isn't affected by Perfect Agony's "Non-Critical Strikes cannot inflict Ailments".

The other 19, as non-crits, cannot inflict ailments due to Perfect Agony, so they wouldn't contribute towards any Ignite/Poison inflicted by the explosion.
Their only ailment damage contribution would be from Explosive Arrow's "Explosion deals 3% more Damage with Ailments per Explosive Arrow on Target".

If you're going to use Perfect Agony, you do have to invest in crit chance, yes.