PoE2 Game Fatigue and player well-being

I just want to write something here to see if it's just me or if others are experiencing the same thing.

PoE2 is mostly a good game, with lots of potential to be great but it also has the potential to do wrong things with each release. I can say that it is a unique experience that is currently above its rivals in D4, and the current version of LE.

I've played about 900 hours, all in SSF. The struggle there is real and when I started the endgame, I was 90% enjoying it and 10% annoyed by the existing issues.

900 hours in and after all the friction and punishment thrown our way, this ratio has dropped to about 55% - 45%. It's a hopeless grind to RNG for upgrades and currencies that will allow my character to bust through its current wall to progression.

For context, I know that if I play in Standard, I would have no problems at all. By now, I have enough currency to buy what my character needs to breeze to level 100.

But that's not my actual concern for this post. What I've realized after quitting for the day is how burnt out and tired I feel about gaming at all. I quit PoE2 to play another game but found that I couldn't muster any enthusiasm at all. Apparently, the PoE2 gameplay loop burnt it out of me. I believe it's designed that way and I find this concerning. It has addictive gameplay with punishing mechanics that are more likely to depress people, rather than impress.

This mix is unhealthy. What do you all think? No one is talking about it. Online creators don't touch on it. Most players just want to have fun. Punishment is ok, if there's a chance to make it back. But when a game just takes away without giving anything back, the devs create a negative UX feedback loop that is toxic to actual well-being. Does GGG want to be that?

I know it's still early to see the ramifications, but other older games such as WoW have a history of player illness and even deaths.

"

adam_law#9913 wrote:

I just want to write something here to see if it's just me or if others are experiencing the same thing.

PoE2 is mostly a good game, with lots of potential to be great but it also has the potential to do wrong things with each release. I can say that it is a unique experience that is currently above its rivals in D4, and the current version of LE.

I've played about 900 hours, all in SSF. The struggle there is real and when I started the endgame, I was 90% enjoying it and 10% annoyed by the existing issues.

900 hours in and after all the friction and punishment thrown our way, this ratio has dropped to about 55% - 45%. It's a hopeless grind to RNG for upgrades and currencies that will allow my character to bust through its current wall to progression.

For context, I know that if I play in Standard, I would have no problems at all. By now, I have enough currency to buy what my character needs to breeze to level 100.

But that's not my actual concern for this post. What I've realized after quitting for the day is how burnt out and tired I feel about gaming at all. I quit PoE2 to play another game but found that I couldn't muster any enthusiasm at all. Apparently, the PoE2 gameplay loop burnt it out of me. I believe it's designed that way and I find this concerning. It has addictive gameplay with punishing mechanics that are more likely to depress people, rather than impress.

This mix is unhealthy. What do you all think? No one is talking about it. Online creators don't touch on it. Most players just want to have fun. Punishment is ok, if there's a chance to make it back. But when a game just takes away without giving anything back, the devs create a negative UX feedback loop that is toxic to actual well-being. Does GGG want to be that?

I know it's still early to see the ramifications, but other older games such as WoW have a history of player illness and even deaths.

This is not a poe issue, this is a gaming addiction you got bro. I wish you the best. It really is not anyones place to tell people what they can and cannot do. Its not GGGs responsibility to think of their players mental health and unreasonable hours playing.
With most addicts their problem is not the drug but its what the drug helps them cope with and that is usually what causes the addiction in the first place. The drug is not the problem, its just a symptom of the problem.

Addiction is real. But before you get nervous, ask a psychologist. Sometimes it is just the burn out from a miserable gameloop. An addict is not burned out from taking drugs. His life just falls apart and he keeps consuming. That seems not the case. I had the same experiance like you with poe2. And I played Elden Ring into NG7+. Many season D3 into paragon 1500+. Way too much Dota. I just stopped because it was not worth the time anymore to keep grinding. We all play the game for how it makes us feel. That is why some people develope an addiction in the first place. Keep it real.

"

ben255#1931 wrote:

This is not a poe issue, this is a gaming addiction you got bro. I wish you the best. It really is not anyones place to tell people what they can and cannot do. Its not GGGs responsibility to think of their players mental health and unreasonable hours playing.
With most addicts their problem is not the drug but its what the drug helps them cope with and that is usually what causes the addiction in the first place. The drug is not the problem, its just a symptom of the problem.

It's easy to take the stance of "Every man for himself". This mindset however. Lets you look the other way when problematic issues arise.


Games regularly take advantage of vulnerable people. Many game companies choose to design their games in a way that thyey're intentionally super addictive, utilizing psychology to maximize the time people play, or the amount they spend.

This is predatory. And predators are looked down upon in society usually. The problem is, Most people don't recognize that some people have deficiencies in their mental capability that makes them less capable than others, it's often downplayed or dismissed entirely.

Your statement is quite dismissive of people with these issues. Trying to shift blame onto them. Their lives are already difficult, they don't need to have game companies psychologically optimizing their game to keep people tied to it. An addiction is a symptom of an underlying issue. A mental deficiency. It's not as simple as just saying someone should do better. They would do better, if they had a properly functioning mind. That's why it's called mental illness, disorders. Because it impacts their lives in ways that they cannot easily overcome.

It honestly should be legislated. China has taken HUGE steps towards this already. They recognize the problem. Europe has as well in some cases. But in the USA, Canada. Most people are still of your viewpoint. They're 100% responsible, and in reality. It's a mix of responsibility. These companies know what they're doing afterall, they're using it to profit..

A list of mental health issues that all screw with peoples impulsivity, addiction, or lead people to games in various ways. Anxiety Disorder, Depression, ADHD, OCD, Bipolar Disorder, PTSD, Low Self-Esteem, Social Anxiety, Substance Use disorders, Personality Disorders, Stress/Burnout. Intellectual learning disabilities, like dyscalculia which makes it difficult for people to understand numbers/value. Or even things like Time-Blindness, which can make it hard for someone to gauge how long they've been playing. This list is not definitive. There's tons of other things that can directly, or indirectly impact a person, it's just intended to give you an example.


You are right. There is a lot of personal accountability to be had with dealing with these mental health issues. But they do need a helping hand too. We cannot simply ignore the people taking advantage of this sort of stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRQqEecBrAM

As I was writing this. EU just gave us another HUGE win for gamers. They banned some wholly manipulative, money making tactics, aimed at taking advantage of players. So clearly this is an issue that they see. Undeniable that people need to be protected from these predatory manipulative tactics.

PoE actually uses a few of these tactics itself. I wonder how it's going to over-come this.

I only played for about 6 weeks. Enough to try 3 clases, get a taste of end-game and quit.

To me it was painfully obvious they just attached PoE1 end-game onto an entirely different game just to say they have it. In reality I don't think they actually tested anything past Act3.

They also have designs in the game which make no sense even for something in alpha development stage. I mentioned this before as a thought provoking question. Why is Energy Shield in PoE2?

Energy Shield aka Mana Shield is a means of improving caster survival. In PoE2 they have Life wheels and massive mana reservation skills so they had to create an alternative. There are no Life Wheels in PoE2. There's no Mana Reservation either. So why is ES in PoE2?

When thinking about fundamental designs like this. It was pretty easy for me to step away.