The Forced "Pseudo-Opt-In" Game Mode Problem

While PoE 2 is a fantastic game in the making, there are two severe issues are plaguing the endgame I'd like to briefly touch on. Basically, we're forced into "soft" or "semi" versions of game modes that are ordinarily opt-in. Allow me to explain:

The One Portal Problem

This topic has been aired out a lot, so I'll spare you all the essay. We're effectively playing a pseudo-hardcore mode at all times in the endgame due to this. Losing a pinnacle or Citadel boss to a single death is so obscenely punishing, it's forcing me to approach the game in a way that's not fun. It's objectively stupid to even attempt one of these without playing a build so powerful, it denies the boss the ability to "play the game."

Learning a campaign boss's mechanics and dying once or twice was a lot of fun. I was almost never even slightly annoyed at dying, because I knew what mistakes I was making. I cannot learn pinnacle bosses like this, because it's upwards of 20 hours of farming for a single try.

If I wanted to play at such high stakes, I'd roll HC.

There are builds I'd love to play that I can't even consider because of how painful dying is. I respect GGG for experimenting with this mechanic--their experimental design is a huge reason why PoE is so damn successful. But it's time for this to be taken out back and put to sleep with a shotgun.

That said, mob and boss HP resetting to full if the player leaves the map or arena for any reason whatsoever is completely fair and in line with PoE 2's design philosophy. "Graveyard rushing" a boss to death is also bad.

The Item Rarity Problem

Secondly, whether you realize it or not, you stand at a crossroads in endgame. You either run a build capable of slotting in the Item Rarity stat on lots of its gear, or you're playing SSF. What do I mean? Currently, running no MF gear, my average drop rate of Divine Orbs is roughly 1 per 50 hours of game play. I am perfectly capable of running T15-16 maps, with juice, at least rare, if not Vaaling them as well, and I understand the importance of layering numerous Precursor Towers on a cluster of maps. This isn't an "I'm running white T1s and am not tripping over divs, WTF, GGG???" scenario. I'm level 90, with all 4 Ascendancies, with 5 /deaths, 4 of which were in the campaign (2 to the bugged colossus boss's 1 shot).

The problem is, this "MF or GTFO" character choice is compounded by the economy. People who already have this gear, on characters capable of running Breaches effectively, are printing currency so fast, it's driving the prices far beyond anyone else's reach. This includes said MF gear.

This means, if you cannot somehow put that character together, which is harder and harder to do with each hour that passes, you're practically playing pseudo-SSF, even if you want to play trade league. Astramentis? At the rate I drop Divine Orbs, I'd need to play around 5-6k hours (which is my play time in PoE 1 since day 1 of beta, by the way) in order to be able to afford one at current prices.

By the numbers, assuming we go down the middle and say 5,500 hours, this means I would have to grind PoE 2 for roughly 15 hours a day, for an entire literal YEAR straight in order to buy one.

That's the problem. We're all more or less playing a "lite" version of SSFHC in PoE 2's endgame, whether we like it or not.

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The game should never force these weird semi-hardcore mechanics on players. And we're already seeing the negative effects of that with people dropping the game left and right because 1 portal is a deal-breaker. It's just bad game design to force your players to play in a certain way. Softcore players choose that mode because they do not want to touch Hardcore at all. It's really that simple.

Don't know who at GGG thought it was a good idea to put even more death penalties in the game when everyone already hates exp loss in PoE 1 lmao

There's lots of psuedo-opt-in mechanics in this game.

The entire games balance is done around a forced economy for instance. Crafting, trading, and the economy all impact the balance of bosses, loot drops, build strength etc. This is one of the driving factors for item rarity, issues with currency, item quantity. And over-all enjoyment of the game for a lot of people.

I really don't think things like 1 portal maps add value to the game, nor the forced economy. I think the game should stand on it's combat and unique builds, unique world, playing with friends, and not being shoved into systems like these.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3663256

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Player agency in this game is almost entirely an illusion.

Player agency is a CORE aspect of PoE1 and the reason it is successful.

One portal hasn't bitten me in the ass so far and I don't necessarily mind "grinding out" a map.

What I do mind is the idea that if I'm not running MF [Rarity] then I'm basically doing everything wrong.

The funny thing is pre-launch GGG talked about rarity giving you more & better gear so I suspect that MF is deeply embedded into their vision for the game which is a shame as many builds can't afford to invest as much into MF as other builds / classes / ascendancies.


While that's an issue I doubt that problem is even fixable short of an entire reset [I.E. put the old builds out to pasture along with old wealth] and to restart.

Note: I do absolutely think that most of the same people will be on top as compared to now. If you're really good at a game you will naturally do better than those that aren't as good.

However while I don't have "CEO" money in the game world I'd still like to participate in the economy and that is where the problems seem to arise is that my "main" build just isn't economically competitive from a game theory point of view.

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

There's lots of psuedo-opt-in mechanics in this game.

Yeah, I may have worded my post a bit poorly. I implied the problems I raised were the only two, but there are in fact many more as you indicated. I feel fixing those would address the most glaring issues, though, and other ones could be focused on afterward.

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KingAlamar#4071 wrote:

One portal hasn't bitten me in the ass so far and I don't necessarily mind "grinding out" a map.

What's your progression? I strongly feel you wouldn't hold this opinion if you've gotten to the point where the pinnacle bosses are your next piece of relevant content to tackle. Losing a white or yellow tier map to a death here and there is whatever, but what about a juiced map in a node you've heavily invested into, all because of a random ground effect obfuscated by 13 other effects stacked on top of it? What about spending 20-30 hours searching for a Citadel, only to die to the boss and being unable to attempt it again until you do another 20-30 hours of grinding for the next one? If you happen to be in the significant minority of people playing HC, this doesn't affect you, but it's a huge problem for the vast majority of players, and will only magnify as more people get deeper into the Atlas.

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KingAlamar#4071 wrote:

What I do mind is the idea that if I'm not running MF [Rarity] then I'm basically doing everything wrong.


While that's an issue I doubt that problem is even fixable short of an entire reset [I.E. put the old builds out to pasture along with old wealth] and to restart.

This is exactly what I'm advocating for. Rarity needs to be purged from gear and reworked systematically (valuable currency drops need SIGNIFICANT buffs), and we need a fresh ladder. As it stands, you're either playing MF, or you're playing SSF. This chasm will only exponentially widen until something drastic is done. Simply removing rarity is not enough. What happens to existing items with it? What about the economy? It would only result in the economy being even more fundamentally broken than it is now, because the people who've taken advantage of this massive design flaw will be even more immensely wealthy.

Thankfully, this is a beta and not a three-month league, so we're effectively playing on a nuclear weapons testing ground. It's high time Jonathan and Mark input the launch codes once the GGG staff returns from holiday.

At this point, I'm strongly considering rerolling in SSF straight up, because trade may as well not exist for me as it stands.

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Sad, but true.