Monk "Palm" abilities PLEASE let them prime targets instead of requiring last hit for effect

The monk palm abilities really feel that they are being played backwards leading to friction IMO that doesn't fit the class.

What I mean is, you should be able to Palm Ability a mob and if you kill that mob within lets say 4 seconds, by any means, as long as it is in that 4 second priming window, you get the charge or the ability of the Palms intention.

Actions/Ability loop would be something like, palm ability dashes to target, marks target, target dies (within 4 seconds), gain charge

Right now trying to last hit stuff for a power charge or else, is a frustrating and friction filled experience.

It also makes you purposely stop attacking to then try last hitting some random mob, before any aoe or other effects kill it before you can palm it. This becomes worse so the more damage you do. When you are in between trying not to kill stuff just so you can hit your palm and kill the mob. The Palm dash doesn't even guarantee you'll through enemies to make it to your marked enemy. Creating a dangerous and akward placement as your character is now in danger blocked by enemies and still doesn't have the charge, only to watch the marked enemy die to a dot, aoe, etc.

It doesn't let you "let loose" and just attack, it is this arduous song and dance that disrupts the normal flow of the class.

I really think if you had people test it either way, the way it is currently set is the more PIA way and doesn't allow the class and combat to feel anywhere as smooth.

In concept, the way it currently is seems fine, but in playability the way I have described how it should be, would PLAY much better.

Monk in general has problems.

Defenses mean nothing when you can get 1 shot by mobs several levels beneath you.

Damage is mediocre if you're not using some highly specialized build that is nerf bait or abuses the stun system.

Generating charges adds a layer of risk and complexity to every boss fight that other classes do not have to contend with.

We have zero decent defensive options, and few decent offensive ones that can get shut down by a half dozen mechanics in game.

We have no decent gap opener on a class that's meant to be hit and run, so even our ranged stuff is done in melee range 90% of the time.

All in all if the game stays like this, monk will be the weakest class. By a healthy margin.

Here's hoping they know what they're doing, but at this point after 2 rounds of fixes I doubt it.

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Glyff3083#1641 wrote:

Monk in general has problems.

Defenses mean nothing when you can get 1 shot by mobs several levels beneath you.

Damage is mediocre if you're not using some highly specialized build that is nerf bait or abuses the stun system.

Generating charges adds a layer of risk and complexity to every boss fight that other classes do not have to contend with.

We have zero decent defensive options, and few decent offensive ones that can get shut down by a half dozen mechanics in game.

We have no decent gap opener on a class that's meant to be hit and run, so even our ranged stuff is done in melee range 90% of the time.

All in all if the game stays like this, monk will be the weakest class. By a healthy margin.

Here's hoping they know what they're doing, but at this point after 2 rounds of fixes I doubt it.

Literally all of this is wrong

My read of the quarterstaff abilities is that your defenses come from debuffs and stuns.

phys quarterstaff skills are all about daze and stun synergies and you can easily work in pin.

Frost quarterstaff skills have freeze to immobilize most enemies

lightning quarter skills have the least in built CC but can trade shock for electrocute to get some or go for big shocks for burst damage.


If you really need power charges for your build, consider the 'resonance' keystone skill that transforms frenzy charge gain to power charge gain and use combat frenzy spirit gem for passive power gen.


I do agree that relying on cull for power charges is janky and not fun. Using the above combat frenzy trick, you can just use killing palm for culling high hp enemies that survive your aoe and not care about it as a power charge generator.


For staggering palm, you can try wind strike for daze and stun priming at range and then palm into the edge of a group of stun primed monsters to do aftershocks, armour break explosion, and frenzy charge gain (endurance to frenzy from keystone) I'm thinking of running this on a witchunter.

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Kashou#2868 wrote:

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Glyff3083#1641 wrote:

Monk in general has problems.

Defenses mean nothing when you can get 1 shot by mobs several levels beneath you.

Damage is mediocre if you're not using some highly specialized build that is nerf bait or abuses the stun system.

Generating charges adds a layer of risk and complexity to every boss fight that other classes do not have to contend with.

We have zero decent defensive options, and few decent offensive ones that can get shut down by a half dozen mechanics in game.

We have no decent gap opener on a class that's meant to be hit and run, so even our ranged stuff is done in melee range 90% of the time.

All in all if the game stays like this, monk will be the weakest class. By a healthy margin.

Here's hoping they know what they're doing, but at this point after 2 rounds of fixes I doubt it.

Literally all of this is wrong

Prove it. Go ahead, dissect away.

"

fouquet#0993 wrote:

My read of the quarterstaff abilities is that your defenses come from debuffs and stuns.

phys quarterstaff skills are all about daze and stun synergies and you can easily work in pin.

Frost quarterstaff skills have freeze to immobilize most enemies

lightning quarter skills have the least in built CC but can trade shock for electrocute to get some or go for big shocks for burst damage.


If you really need power charges for your build, consider the 'resonance' keystone skill that transforms frenzy charge gain to power charge gain and use combat frenzy spirit gem for passive power gen.


I do agree that relying on cull for power charges is janky and not fun. Using the above combat frenzy trick, you can just use killing palm for culling high hp enemies that survive your aoe and not care about it as a power charge generator.

For staggering palm, you can try wind strike for daze and stun priming at range and then palm into the edge of a group of stun primed monsters to do aftershocks, armour break explosion, and frenzy charge gain (endurance to frenzy from keystone) I'm thinking of running this on a witchunter.

1: I meant your base dodge/energy shield. Those two defenses are meant to be hit and run. Zip in till your shield cracks, zip out and recharge, rinse repeat. As it is right now, since your enemies are so damn fast, you can never really make space, so the hit and run concept falls apart.

2: With the targeting as janky as it is, keeping a stun in your back pocket is as likely to get you killed as not in my experience.

3: I think that's putting a bandaid on a problem and not actually dealing with it. Sure we can use keystones and roundabout means to make it easier or even automatic. But at the same time, why was it so hard in the first place?

4: And killing palm isn't the one I was talking about, syphoning strike was. Even with all of the chance to shock I can get, I'm still looking at only 4% chance to shock per 1% fill on the stun gauge. Against bosses, that's a problem.

I largely agree with you about being forced to find roundabout ways to avoid bad mechanics. That said, the evasion/energy shield setup can be very strong especially with Chaos inoculation and using the Crowd Control (CC) abilities slow down the rate at which enemies attack you. It sounds like you are playing the lightning quarterstaff abilities which explains why you are struggling to find CC. Try electrocute buildup on your combo builder/spam ability maybe?

Relying on shocks for mobility on siphoning strike probably feels bad without very consistent shocking. Have you tried storm wave with fully shockmaxxing supports to force it?

these abilities; like several others of the monk and at least one of the warriors are intended to be used re-actively but cannot be because the animations of other attacks can lock you out of performing them. Rather than allowing these powers to be used non-reactively, as you suggest, wouldn't it be better to let them cancel other attack animations the way the dodge roll can? So you can always abandon your current action to take one of these when needed.

my current list of abilities that need this change looks like this; killing palm, stunning palm, frost locus, frost wave and boneshatter but I'm sure there are a whole bunch more.

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fouquet#0993 wrote:

I largely agree with you about being forced to find roundabout ways to avoid bad mechanics. That said, the evasion/energy shield setup can be very strong especially with Chaos inoculation and using the Crowd Control (CC) abilities slow down the rate at which enemies attack you. It sounds like you are playing the lightning quarterstaff abilities which explains why you are struggling to find CC. Try electrocute buildup on your combo builder/spam ability maybe?

Relying on shocks for mobility on siphoning strike probably feels bad without very consistent shocking. Have you tried storm wave with fully shockmaxxing supports to force it?

Yea, even with that exact setup for storm wave it's still very janky in boss fights. Cause your chance of shocking is directly related to the stun bar, which means you have to constantly hit them, or the bar begins to drop.

It forces you to be way more aggressive than you might want to be in a boss fight, or risk sinking to a spot where you can't reliably shock the boss to generate charges.

"

NecroMonster#6703 wrote:

these abilities; like several others of the monk and at least one of the warriors are intended to be used re-actively but cannot be because the animations of other attacks can lock you out of performing them. Rather than allowing these powers to be used non-reactively, as you suggest, wouldn't it be better to let them cancel other attack animations the way the dodge roll can? So you can always abandon your current action to take one of these when needed.

my current list of abilities that need this change looks like this; killing palm, stunning palm, frost locus, frost wave and boneshatter but I'm sure there are a whole bunch more.

That would work if the game was "slower" at higher levels, I am doing like 5 attacks a second currently, there is no time to "cancel an animation" to then palm something reactively. I think my attack speed is currently like .18 seconds lol.