Demon Form sucks

Looks cool but annoying to use because it is a weapon swap.
Maybe nerf the demon form and keep the weapons? + lock to current weapon set.
demon have big downsides already and losing weapon stats feels wrong. if you think it is powerfull maybe nerf the form.

There is no point of killing good design for nothing.

I think demon form is actually a good ascendancy, especially when you cap the buff stacks. You lose your weapon and have to get some extra life Regen on gear, but the dodge in demon form is incredible. The damage you get from it is very good too. It's comparable to, or better than, a well rolled staff. Once I got my second ascendancy, the game got a lot easier. I think it's really a great defensive tool.

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Krooce#7570 wrote:

I think demon form is actually a good ascendancy, especially when you cap the buff stacks. You lose your weapon and have to get some extra life Regen on gear, but the dodge in demon form is incredible. The damage you get from it is very good too. It's comparable to, or better than, a well rolled staff. Once I got my second ascendancy, the game got a lot easier. I think it's really a great defensive tool.

I can't stress enough how wrong this is. (and I was on this same boat of "Demon form actually good cause dodge" like two days ago)

First and foremost, you get a better dodge by slotting blink in an unset ring. The spirit requirement is easily achievable with a scepter or armor+ammy (I'm currently 66 infernalist stacking every buff in the game with barely 2-3 ex in rares, still got like 15 spare spirit)

You also easily get almost the same + %inc damage off a good stat wand with +3 skills and better additional stats like crit and mana on kill, versus a degening +4 and a bit of cast speed.

You end up doing less damage than almost any other setup you can do with infernalist, and also being way squishier. Once you reach the end of cruel you have literally no reason to go demon form AT ALL. Mind you, I specced in and out of demon form to test after each fix implemented so far (tanking my gold in the process of course) and I always came out short.

Not worth it.

The only fix possible is to allow the weapon stats to be kept, period. If it ends up being too strong all you need to do is nerf the % spell damage ramping, that's it.

At level 65 it's +5 and it goes to +6, the degen isn't that bad, there is even a 1 ex unique that solves the degen completely if you are on trade. You can zoom through maps in Demon form, not having a cd on a really fast dodge speeds up clear by a lot. I'm not saying it's optimal, but it can easily carry through campaign and into early maps.

Also, we don't know if druid will have items that work in shapeshift, or buff shapeshifting.

Yeah, disappointed with this shapeshift..

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Krooce#7570 wrote:

At level 65 it's +5 and it goes to +6, the degen isn't that bad, there is even a 1 ex unique that solves the degen completely if you are on trade. You can zoom through maps in Demon form, not having a cd on a really fast dodge speeds up clear by a lot. I'm not saying it's optimal, but it can easily carry through campaign and into early maps.

Also, we don't know if druid will have items that work in shapeshift, or buff shapeshifting.

It's still moot cause at those levels you can still get the same power off a staff without the degen. Using up a slot with a unique makes it even worse. (Although there's other ways to deal with the degen, it's still not worth it to spec into)

You'll be doing the same damage without sacrificing a slot to a unique or passives to the mitigation, and with better build freedom. Also, blink on second wind + cd reduction is better because you get two in a row without the animation vulnerability at the end of the dodge. You're safer and can go through mobs, which Demon Form's dash cannot. Having a measly 1.5s cd on a 2 charge blink is hardly reason enough for demon form dodge to be better just for that.

So you're going demon just to do the same damage as wielding a staff but missing out on the infernal flame bonuses or the damage mitigation and/or life reservation shenanigans. +6 is NOT giving you better damage at all once you take into account what you're missing for it.


Oh, and a nice lil thingy almost noone mentions is that you're locked out of both staff/wand skills and scepter auras.

The deeper you go, the worse it gets. There's no need to pointlessly justify something that's clearly broken just cause you can sort of make it work.

I get that it's not better than a really good gear, but for leveling/early maps you can get more damage with minimal gear. Then once you have good gear you can spec out of it. You can also still use it without the life degen cap, for a boss killing button.

I really believe that there are going to be +shapeshifting skills on gear when druid releases. I think it's probably balanced with that in mind, but who really knows, that's just speculation.

Maybe I'm completely wrong, but it feels pretty powerful, and 5% life degen isn't that hard to mitigate. Plus the ability to use the long dodge, without reserving 60 spirit is also gearing friendly.

what do you mean when you say "really good gear"
my demon form is 17 level right now

23% cast speed
+6 level skill

+
16% spell damage per flame
-0.5% life per demonflame
-2 points from ascendancy

two blue wands can give you more. am i missing something?

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e_sen#2038 wrote:

what do you mean when you say "really good gear"
my demon form is 17 level right now

23% cast speed
+6 level skill

+
16% spell damage per flame
-0.5% life per demonflame
-2 points from ascendancy

two blue wands can give you more. am i missing something?

I just mean getting the same mobility and damage on gear, especially while leveling. Cause it's 60 spirit for blink, which isn't bad. But getting that and having a staffs damage means you need 2 pieces of gear with + spirit. Once you're doing maps and getting higher tier mods, it's probably better to swap off it, or just use it as a damage cd. As you can get good spirit on just a helm or amulet. I don't think the permanent demon form is going to be stronger than just rares, but until you get those rares. It's pretty nice.

"

Krooce#7570 wrote:

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e_sen#2038 wrote:

what do you mean when you say "really good gear"
my demon form is 17 level right now

23% cast speed
+6 level skill

+
16% spell damage per flame
-0.5% life per demonflame
-2 points from ascendancy

two blue wands can give you more. am i missing something?

I just mean getting the same mobility and damage on gear, especially while leveling. Cause it's 60 spirit for blink, which isn't bad. But getting that and having a staffs damage means you need 2 pieces of gear with + spirit. Once you're doing maps and getting higher tier mods, it's probably better to swap off it, or just use it as a damage cd. As you can get good spirit on just a helm or amulet. I don't think the permanent demon form is going to be stronger than just rares, but until you get those rares. It's pretty nice.

+1