Kinda ironic how melee struggles more with mana as it fails to reach the power of Archmage builds

Archmage builds, which generally just build out of mana problems, because efficient %Mana nodes just have built-in regen or reduced mana cost. Meanwhile, melee is picking up some zdps dogshit passive (thankfully you get aura effiicency in the process - except, the other archetype gets that even more efficiently).

Finally nerfed corpse scaling, right as a suitable replacement turned up, ie prenerf Archmage. We've already tried this and starting to see it again - all caster builds are becoming Archmage builds. Mind-numbingly stupid design decisions and melee is going to look like shit in comparison.

This idea of always having the meta (from a balance perspective) figured out before the league starts is getting old.

I'm looking at the costs of these melee builds' skills, and it's prohibitive

Like, you cannot actually play a melee build when each use of your skills costs 200 plus mana

With 7 attacks per second, at 145 mana plus occasional other condition-met skills, that's over 2k mana used per second

There is no build in the history of the game that can accomplish this

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Orca_Orcinus wrote:

I'm looking at the costs of these melee builds' skills, and it's prohibitive

Like, you cannot actually play a melee build when each use of your skills costs 200 plus mana

With 7 attacks per second, at 145 mana plus occasional other condition-met skills, that's over 2k mana used per second

There is no build in the history of the game that can accomplish this

You're doing something wrong if you hit a cost of more than 200 mana.
You can still lower your cost down close to nothing and just sustain it over mana leech.
Nothing has changed about melee in this regard other than easier bleed acess early on and overall more bonkers damage early on as well

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Pashid wrote:

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Orca_Orcinus wrote:

I'm looking at the costs of these melee builds' skills, and it's prohibitive

Like, you cannot actually play a melee build when each use of your skills costs 200 plus mana

With 7 attacks per second, at 145 mana plus occasional other condition-met skills, that's over 2k mana used per second

There is no build in the history of the game that can accomplish this

You're doing something wrong if you hit a cost of more than 200 mana.
You can still lower your cost down close to nothing and just sustain it over mana leech.
Nothing has changed about melee in this regard other than easier bleed acess early on and overall more bonkers damage early on as well

I must be doing something wrong, cause there is no way melee is viable - if you are in Tier 1 maps w a 6L, you can't even afford to use your melee skill, and I don't know where you're getting mana leech from?

Maybe you path all the way to a node? Who knows, but now you're at -17 pts and your skills still cost 2k mana/sec

in a moment a bunch of people will come here and claim that 'it is not a problem, stop exaggerating' or whatever

meanwhile, most serious build creators moved to f.. BLOOD MAGIC keystone.

keystone that you take in two cases: 1) life stacker casters 2) melee builds that cannot handle mana

price for that keystone is AT LEAST one 50% aura, in most cases one 50% aura and one smaller reservation

so yeah, it is 'no problem' to such extent that people - and i mean actually great build creators - opt into BLOOD MAGIC. as Kripp nicely said it - if you could not take Blood Magic you could just slap Malevolence and get 25% more damage outright (+stuff from Watchers etc)


but you cannot because melee skills now cost ~50-60 mana per click.

there are ways of reducing that cost, but they cost points, quite a few points (elemental attacks also get Inspiration - this makes things seriously easier)

you could play slow slams - fine, you can. but slams means autoexert, right? 3 slams? it is like 80 mana per activation (you support them with more duration, right?) in a moment you cannot predict.

chances are it leaves you at ZERO mana in the precisely worst moment.

no, lifetaping main skill is not a solution (would you accept as a solution 20% reduction to your salary?), neither is spending 7 passives just to swing a wooden stick.

A LOT of people is going to smash their builds into a brick wall of mana issues - because the mana cost per second is not only main attack, but also all the misc stuff, procs and automation. mark on hit alone is 60+ mana

we got 3 sockets instead of totems. but to not die to OOM we need to spend more on lifetaping everything now

it is a massive nerf - it will spare some builds (elemental + slow, particular skills/gemini claw users), but will absolutely remove some builds from the game (dual strike of momentum..).

it is artificially created problem, something that wasnt a thing for years (to the point that people who have no experience automaticaly reject it as a valid concern). it is going to be a SERIOUS issue now.

if it wouldnt, most melee POBs wouldnt use Blood Magic (lightning strike is not melee - albeit it is going to be THE skill of 3.25 if the Return Proj enchant applies)

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Orca_Orcinus wrote:

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Pashid wrote:

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Orca_Orcinus wrote:

I'm looking at the costs of these melee builds' skills, and it's prohibitive

Like, you cannot actually play a melee build when each use of your skills costs 200 plus mana

With 7 attacks per second, at 145 mana plus occasional other condition-met skills, that's over 2k mana used per second

There is no build in the history of the game that can accomplish this

You're doing something wrong if you hit a cost of more than 200 mana.
You can still lower your cost down close to nothing and just sustain it over mana leech.
Nothing has changed about melee in this regard other than easier bleed acess early on and overall more bonkers damage early on as well

I must be doing something wrong, cause there is no way melee is viable - if you are in Tier 1 maps w a 6L, you can't even afford to use your melee skill, and I don't know where you're getting mana leech from?

Maybe you path all the way to a node? Who knows, but now you're at -17 pts and your skills still cost 2k mana/sec

Lol what

Saving this

post is way to vague. clear speed meta ? sure what you expect, they cant turn all melee skill to flicker strike or lightning strike

eviscerate bleed is a double damage onto a double damage to sth like lacerate.
crushing fist can do some hundreds of million "hit"
other retaliate might be as powerful dunno

as your mana, sure, ggg is nerfing attack speed for sure. and even then, you can still get some reduced mana at a cost
so what if they go blood magic.
biggest goal is to get more than 10% melee players wich was terrible. they can adjust shit later.


edit. late game there are all the stackers anyway.

In World of Warcraft (WoW) the affliction specialization of the warlock class used to be (many years ago) reaaaaally complicated juggling several damage over time skills on a target, temporary buff effects, and maximizing the damage of each of these effects with dynamic snapshotting (ie. the damage of a DoT would only increase with your buff if you recast it).

If played well, by a very small portion of the community at the time, the resulting DPS was amazing in any fight with one or more boss targets. The other DPS specs at the time then complained "wtf affliction is godmode in every fight except trash (before the boss) fights and needs huge nerfs", to which the small skilled affliction warlock community responded "we deserve this great DPS if we put in this crazy effort and micromanagement."

The incoming 3.2.5 state of melee (especially warcry piano slam) reminds me of those affliction warlock days in WoW, except melee now in POE doesn't have the results to justify that effort.

The mass migration to blood magic keystone, and giving up most/all of your auras (huge offensive and defensive damage loss) is the ultimate insult cherry on the top from the devs.