Immortal Call vs Steel Skin + CWDT

Jus a question. RF by Pohx build. He advised Steel Skin after dropping Molten Shell but Immortal Call wouldnt be better?

THX in advance.

No one want to share?

Right now im thinkin if automation wouldnt be better than CWDT. It doesnt limits gems levels at least.

I think i will try it.

Still dunno if Immortal Call or Steel Skin.

Steelskin will last a bit longer with no extra buffs. Immortal call will provide a bit more max hit but is shorter without investment into endurance charges.

Play around with both and see what feels better to you.

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de99ial wrote:

Jus a question. RF by Pohx build. He advised Steel Skin after dropping Molten Shell but Immortal Call wouldnt be better?

THX in advance.

It depends what you need?
Steelskin is great if you need to deal with bleed, frees up a flask which grants bleed immunity. Can soak ~2209dmg

Molten Shell is if you need to slow down damage and want to output a bit of damage
1. Can soak ~5000dmg if you have 50k armour.
2. If you have 22k armour the damage soak between molten shell and steelskin is the same.
3. If you have less than 22k armour, steelskin will soak more incoming damage.

Immortal call is good if you have endurance charges floating around and as stated want more max hit.

The debate between automation and CWDT is topical debate.
CWDT will trigger when you need it, automation will keep the buff up often.
Example. Molten shell is great to have on all the time because of the end explosion.
Compared to steelskin / immortal call, you may only need these to get out of a difficult situation which is when CWDT is good, unless you need this on all the time to stay alive then automation.

I'm using Steelskin on my juggernaut just for the bleed immunity.

Immortal call is strong on paper, but it's duration is low and consumes endurance charges constantly. If you don't have a reliable way to generate them quickly, you might be better with Molten Shell.

Pohx buildguide recommend Molten Shell if you run with Determination. As soos as it is dropped for Malovelence he recommends Steel Skin (50%
+ phys dmg taken conv).

But both on CWDT around 10 lvl so around 1k dmg. Hence Automation.

However i just wonder id Imm Call on CWDT wouldnt be better.

I generate charges from Call to Arms + End Cry.

THX for participating.

Currently testing Still Skin + Automation. And i think it works better.

This question largely relates to life pool, and how much extra damage your guard skill allows you to take before dying, or before play is being impacted by taking too much damage.

MS has the highest flat mitigation (less now but still the highest), but requires large armor pool to hit this maximum. Likely why it has been dropped on some chieftain builds, because they are using Phys taken as Ele over stacking armour.

SS doesn't provide as much flat as MS, but doesn't need the armour condition.

IC works off a percentage, which means it can mitigate more than the other two with a large or replenishing hit pool during taking damage, but drops off at lower values.

For this reason IC is often good on high hit pool builds and Steel skin on low (not universally true but a good starting point).

You can do some math to find approximate values depending on your hit pool.

SS and molten shell take roughly the same ratio of damage (70% vs 75%), so to get full value of 2200 before dying, a hit pool of about 940 (2200*30/70) is needed. Below this you will die through your guard skill. To get this amount of flat guard points from MS you would need about 22k amour, which I believe is calculated at the time of proccing MS and not dynamic through the duration. Beyond this point, SS is maxed while MS will increase as life pool gets bigger, so long as enough armour allows it.

With 940 hit points, IC will give 330 guard points(940*.35). To get to 2200 guard points, IC will need 6,300 (2200/.35),at which point it provides more guard than SS. To get to 5000, 14300(5000/.35) hit points are needed, at which point it goes past MS. These numbers become much more favorable for Phys mitigation when removing endurance charges.

This is just a rough guide as in game guard skill will not always be proccing at max hit points, so lower values effect the numbers, and game play has other factors than just max damage taken.

Some other factors:

IC does not require being leveled to get the values, while the others do, and require strength.

IC does not mitigate chaos damage and the other 2 do.

SS gives bleed immunity, MS give some amour buff.

MS has a damage component.

IC has a shorter set duration. The other two are longer but may not last the full duration.

IC benefits from endurance charges, however they are removed, so you will be weaker ignoring the guard skills buff until you get your endurance charges back, not having any of the benefits your endurance charges give your build.

Potential uptime: SS 1.5:3 = 33%, MS 3:4 = 42%, IC(Base) 1:3 = 25% (upto 40%), can be altered through tree/ suports, durations and cooldowns.

Automation provides another layer on top of self cast and CWDT. More options is likely a factor in some build editing their choice. Particularly for IC, proccing the guard before damage is taken can mean more guard points available at the cost of guard being up/down potentially at the wrong time. Can be an improvement against 1 shots that wouldn't trigger CWDT if up, as was possible with auto casting on LMB.

Mana cost, IC is higher than the other two which are about the same.

In general at mid range values, eg. 22k armour/ 5k life, they are all probably going to be a bout the same, but there is a lot of room to min/max depending on your build. If one is your preference and it feels better for your gameplay that is the most important factor.

POB can calculate all this information with more accuracy and reliability than my numbers for your build if you want to skip the math.

TLDR: MS good with lots of armour, SS good with low hit pool, IC good with high hit pool, many other factors to consider.

THX for replay and explanation. That helps.

Im stick with SS + Automation. CWDT has level limit so having CWDT 1300dmg to have 1050 protection is kinda... Weak. So better to have 21l SS on Automation, also 21 +20 quality.

Thats the ideal scenario.