Passive respec points need to go.

I think is time that passive tree resoec points need to go. It doesn't really add anything except a cost for building your character. It doesn't make choices more weighty or important.

I suggest locking the tree outside the hideout and letting us respec freely inside of it.

At the very very least, give a resoec point when we level up.

In the endgame the minmaxing we do may require some serious rearranging.

Not a problem if you have some okay knowledge about the passives and an idea of what your build requires/looks like.

You should have more than enough orb of regrets by the time you reach endgame to min-max your build freely.

It's good that we have a respect cost, cause else you could turn your mapping character into a boss farming character at any giving time.
It makes the min-maxing of having a good all-round build more satisfying tbh.


But D4 is also a thing cause the "passive" reroll cost is close to non existent.

have you played a single game where there's no cost to your decisions? No, because thats not a what a game or gamplay is. Its exactly the same as asking for a game where monsters can't kill you if you make a positioning mistake. Then your positioning doesn't matter and you need not care about it.

As a thought experiment take that example and put it in something like Vampire Survivors... a game where the only things you do is position and choose your level ups. Now that game plays itself and the only choices you make are what to pick when you level up.

Without cost your choices are meaningless and have no consequence. In the extreme logical extent this means you're not playing a game. In a game with OTHER choices that do matter it means you're playing less of a game.

Now here's the kicker: you want less impactful choices and less consequence by making your passive tree choices no longer matter long term they only matter in the moment. because you can just change them at a whim. Not everyone wants that. I don't in fact I'd say its just fine as it is. There's a balance for sure making it too punishing isn't any better than making it weightless.

D4 is a great example of what it feels like when choices/loot/end goals don't have enough "weight". I can instantly respec my character which means I can experiment and that is fun for about 10 mins or so total here and there as I respec to find something I like. But then my character no longer feels like it had a progression arc... No journey to it. My choices don't matter because I can change them on the fly... I no longer even give a shit if my choices are good ones, I plop a passive into "whatever". Now getting a passive feels less impactful. I can change them whenever. I get LAZY about min maxing because min maxing doesn't really matter until i hit a speed bump... and then the speed bumps never happen because the game doesn't have very challenging content.

Then I no longer care about what I'm doing because it doesn't feel important to CARE.

This is not what POE is about thankfully.

You know what....I agree with the title of the post! Passive respec points need to go.

Your passive tree should be LOCKED as soon as you make the decision, with maybe ONE total respec given to you once you complete Act 10. But outside of that, you should not be able to freely manipulate your tree at all. You should have to start a new character when you want to try something new.

Modern RPGs with all this flexibility around character choices KILLS replayability. You make a single Barbarian in D3 and....that's it. You can play EVERY barbarian build from that single character. That is utterly ridiculous.

Same is true of D4, PoE (to a degree), among others. It's a silly nod to casual, inexperienced players that is totally unnecessary. Stop removing THOUGHT from the game loop.

OP, this is pointless to post such threads so late in league. The ratio of normal players that value their free time versus "fans" that don't mind sinking 10hr/day is skewed towards the second group.

No matter what "i am criticizing game" claim you'll make, it will always be met with exact same response "no! we need more ruthless!1"


Imo respecs should go away. Or needs a redesign to be more casual/tinkering/experimenting friendly.

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alhazred70 wrote:

have you played a single game where there's no cost to your decisions? No, because thats not a what a game or gamplay is.

I have, actually.

It was called Diablo 3, and it was f**king dogs**t.

I think people have a really hard time explaining their opinion of why having a resoec cost is meaningful.

I mean my take is an opinion too, but the resoec system right now is clunky, time consuming, and doesn't feel like it should be in a modern game. At least in my opinion.

It just feels like a way to punish people. Another method to waste time on top of a mountain of other stupid systems they begrudgingly will never improve on.

Almost every rpg lets people respec, and usually for a low cost.

I think a lot of people can't take any criticism on ways to make the game feel smoother because they afraid if diablo bad or something. Not that my take is even convincing, but disblo 3 and 4 have good ideas even if they have bad execution.

In general I think they need to basically overhaul the entire gear and level system. It is too old at this point, the game has had like 15 endgame expansions and the tree has barely changed.

I'd rather play the game then plan playing the game if that makes any sense.

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ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate wrote:

"

alhazred70 wrote:

have you played a single game where there's no cost to your decisions? No, because thats not a what a game or gamplay is.

I have, actually.

It was called Diablo 3, and it was f**king dogs**t.

I used to think unlimited respec was a great feature before I experienced D3. I was very wrong.

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ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate wrote:

"

alhazred70 wrote:

have you played a single game where there's no cost to your decisions? No, because thats not a what a game or gamplay is.

I have, actually.

It was called Diablo 3, and it was f**king dogs**t.

Its a dogshit game I agree but saying there NO cost to any decision in D3 is ofc pure hyperbole. The point of my question was to illustrate that all a game is is a collection of more or less compelling choices and once you have no choices or none that matter (essentially the same thing) you have something that is not really a game in any sort of hobbist sense.

Pachinko for example. Or a Slot machine.

There's certainly not nearly enough. But also set bonuses "cost" too much opportunity they remove choices effectively. It all adds up to less of a game, less depth less replay-ability less dopamine potential from choices.

D4 has effectively the same respec system with no real cost and is actually worse (less of a game) than D3 in that aspect and many others.

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alhazred70 wrote:

Its a dogshit game I agree but saying there NO cost to any decision in D3 is ofc pure hyperbole. The point of my question was to illustrate that all a game is is a collection of more or less compelling choices and once you have no choices or none that matter (essentially the same thing) you have something that is not really a game in any sort of hobbist sense.

Pachinko for example. Or a Slot machine.

There's certainly not nearly enough. But also set bonuses "cost" too much opportunity they remove choices effectively. It all adds up to less of a game, less depth less replay-ability less dopamine potential from choices.

D4 has effectively the same respec system with no real cost and is actually worse (less of a game) than D3 in that aspect and many others.

This is objectively untrue. Did you not play D3 or something?

In Diablo 3, you didn't choose skills when you levelled up - you unlocked every single skill automatically, and you chose loadouts between them. You literally didn't have builds in that game, because there were zero choices to make that couldn't be unmade for free out of combat. If you were playing Mystic Ally monk, and decided you want to try Wave of Light monk, you literally just walk to your stash and equip slightly different items. If you want to change back, you walk back to your stash and re-equip the first set of items. There is ZERO cost to doing this.

In D4, you have a limited number of skill points and there's a significant gold cost to refunding them. You can't have every single skill simultaneously unlocked on your character, which means the game actually has builds. There's a lot to dislike about D4, but not having builds isn't on that list.