we are too much dependant on pob/poe ninja/etc.... thats keeping the community from growing...

the game only trully starts for me after new stuff goes on pob... before that i can play off course but i would never really know how good or bad my build is
the numbers ingame doesnt mean anything.. i wont even talk about minions, cuz they dont show any dmg or resist numbers at all... how is someone suposed to min max a build if they dont use a third party tool
its about time we had a built-in pob inside the game, one gthat we can theorycraft and test stuff as soon as a new league is launched... and what about decent dps calculation? how is it we can do it on pob so easly and u guys cant do it in the game itself??

thats keeping this community from growing for sure...
each time i try bringing 10 friends to play with me, 10 just give up cuz numbers and mechanics are misleading

"nearby" means a ton os diferent measures.... gems that should work with minions just dont, etc

....
guys u are losing money

less third party tools and economy's


more ingame and community focus

FFS. Losing, not "Loosing". For example, "her butthole is loose after all those activities". As in it gained girth or lost inherent elasticity due plastic deformation.

And i'm pretty sure GGG itself is keeping the game from growing with their Vision.

Some might be too dependent. Not gunna act like it's some pro skill thing. It's just experience.

When you look at a skill, see what it does and check it's damage multipliers. You can usually get a quick idea of what to formulate it around. Items, Ascendancy, supports, uniques.

There's builds that break out proc coefficients or similar but that's not something any game is going to show you. It requires math regardless. Point is you can generally guesstimate.

I've always been on the side that tools like PoB and PoENinja are more detrimental than helpful.

"

Xzorn wrote:

Some might be too dependent. Not gunna act like it's some pro skill thing. It's just experience.

When you look at a skill, see what it does and check it's damage multipliers. You can usually get a quick idea of what to formulate it around. Items, Ascendancy, supports, uniques.

There's builds that break out proc coefficients or similar but that's not something any game is going to show you. It requires math regardless. Point is you can generally guesstimate.

I've always been on the side that tools like PoB and PoENinja are more detrimental than helpful.

This.

PoB is a useful tool, but any tool becomes a crutch if you become overly reliant on it. Ninja is actively harmful for most players who lack the knowledge to contextualize what they're seeing. I've got friends who have played this game for years and are still bad at it, because they've never really tried to make their own builds.

But at the end of the day, fun is subjective and everyone should set their own goals for a character/league/etc. If someone has fun grinding white maps for 100 divines so they can copy-paste an exact build they found online... I mean, good for them. They're having fun and not harming me so why should I object?

^the problem with that viewpoint is that entire archetypes have NO information in-game and can only be done via 3rd party tools.

Minions for instance...or most DoT builds. You might know what helps them but you have absolutely no idea exactly what is happening without using PoB.

For many, the NUMBERS are what cause a lot of enjoyment. Seeing the actual statistics go up and up. If the game doesn't offer that to you, that's a huge amount of "fun" that people miss out on.


My thoughts are: if PoB can do it, then why can't/doesn't the game itself? Even in an alternate window or something that isn't always "on", but those who care can check it out. It's not even a matter of dependence or independence but simply a lack of (sometimes crucial) information offered in-game.

"

each time i try bringing 10 friends to play with me, 10 just give up cuz numbers and mechanics are misleading

You mean the zero times that happened?

And yes, sure, the community doesn't grow because of these tools. You need a certain level of commitment to actually need these tools, but people who want to commit their time dig deep into the game surely don't do it because they need to use third-party tools. What's next? Does the missing VR support prevent community growth?

You've got to be kidding right? Having POB available has gotten me a LOT more invested in figuring out builds, tweaking builds to fit my style, trying different things to buff both offense & defense, learning how to use different skills, than I would have ever been otherwise.

I don't always find what I'm hoping for on poe.ninja, but it's an invaluable source for learning how to utilize gear & skills.

"

jsuslak313 wrote:

^the problem with that viewpoint is that entire archetypes have NO information in-game and can only be done via 3rd party tools.

Minions for instance...or most DoT builds. You might know what helps them but you have absolutely no idea exactly what is happening without using PoB.

Minions can be a trouble, though I don't see what's hard about DoTs.

PoB can be very misleading when the player doesn't know how to apply knowledge to it. It's kinda like Armor and flat DR. PoB displays them as the same number but they're very different stats.

I use PoB but not usually till level 90-92 to squeeze a lil extra that I wasn't able to guesstimate before. It can also be good for comparing very similar item stats.

PoENinja I can only see being a determent to the game. It causes herding and unnecessary nerfs to flavor of the league skills that are otherwise fine outside whatever they added that league.

I mean, we all know Fortify got scuffed because Shield skills were being abused 3 leagues in a row, right? It has nothing to do with the mechanic itself and now all of melee suffers.