Changing Ancestor Totems to help with Game Health
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I have a dream of a game state where Ancestor Totems are an archetype of their own. An archetype which could be played in multiple different ways. I'd like to posit changes that would perhaps enable this dream. As a forewarning, these changes brush against the whole conversation of "ancestor totems are bad for melee" - my stance is that I agree. Zizaran puts it best when he says "Whenever something feels mandatory or when you feel dumb for not doing something, then it absolutely justifies a nerf." and that applies here. However, instead of just nerfing Ancestor Totems, I feel they should be turned in to a more interesting archetype. This is not the thread to discuss what changes melee needs.
Keep in mind that names and numbers may need changed - I am not an art, writing, design and marketing department. =) Gem Changes
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Ancestral Warchief - Old: "(8-18)% more Melee Damage while Totem is Active" - New: "(1-4)% more melee damage to nearby Ancestor Totems for each time it has hit an enemy recently." - Now has the Ancestor tag. Ancestral Protector - Old: "(10-20)% more Attack Speed while Totem is Active" - New: "(2-5)% more attack speed to nearby Ancestor Totems for each time it has hit an enemy recently" - Now has the Ancestor tag. Decoy Totem -> Ancestral Decoy - Now has a spirit ancestor above the totem, similar to other Ancestor Totem skills. - Now has the Ancestor tag. Devouring Totem -> Ancestral Devourer - Now has a spirit ancestor above the totem, similar to other Ancestor Totem skills. This spirit may look familiar. - Now has the Ancestor tag. Rejuvenation Totem -> Removed New Active Skill Gem: Ancestral Healer - Casts a healing spell on nearby allies. - (2-5)% more cast speed to nearby Ancestor Totems for each time it has cast recently. Searing Bond -> Removed New Support Gem: Ancestral Bond Support - Supports Link skills, summoning an Ancestral Totem that uses the supported Link skill on the caster. New Support Gem: Ancestral Follower - A Strength Support Gem that causes supported Ancestor Totem skills you cast to attach to you. Attached Ancestors orbit the player from a short distance. New Active Skill Gem: Prayer To The Ancients - Commands all Ancestor Totems currently Attached to you to instead Attach to the target. This target does not need to be friendly. Vaal Ancestral Warchief - Summon Ancestral Warchiefs up to your maximum totem limit. These Ancestral Warchiefs are attached. Vaal Ancestral Healer - Summon Ancestral Healers up to your maximum totem limit. These Ancestral Warchiefs are attached. Unique Item Changes
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Dawnstrider Unique Boots Old: - +(80-100) to maximum Life - 30% increased Movement Speed - 100% increased Effect of Buffs your Ancestor Totems grant while Active - Buffs from Active Ancestor Totems Linger for 4 seconds - Maximum 1 Buff from an Active Ancestor Totem at a time New: - +(80-100) to maximum Life - 30% increased Movement Speed - 100% increased Effect of Buffs your Ancestor Totems grant while Active - Buffs from Active Ancestor Totems apply to you instead of nearby totems and Linger for 4 seconds Passive Tree Changes
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Panopticon Old: - 30% increased Totem Damage - Attack Skills have +1 to maximum number of Summoned Ballista Totems - 50% increased Effect of Buffs your Ancestor Totems grant while Active New: - 30% increased Totem Damage - Attack Skills have +1 to maximum number of Summoned Totems - 50% increased Effect of Buffs your Ancestor Totems grant while Active Watchtowers Old: - 24% increased Totem Damage - Attack Skills have +1 to maximum number of Summoned Ballista Totems - 1% increased Movement Speed per Summoned Totem New: - 24% increased Totem Damage - Attack Skills have +1 to maximum number of Summoned Totems - 1% increased Movement Speed per Summoned Totem New Keystone: House of Spirits - Ancestor Totems you summon are always attached to you. You cannot summon non-Ancestor totems. New Mechanics
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Attached Ancestor Totems: When a totem is attached, it orbits the attached target at a short distance from it. The Ancestor of the totem is rendered, but the totem itself is not, similar to how Mirage Archer works. The attack, cast, and buff range of the Ancestor takes in to account its position, so you'll want to make sure that any attacking Ancestors are in range of your enemies. Totems can be attached to enemies and will target them if they're in range. Only Ancestor Totems can be attached. Applicable stats, while not included in this post, are Ancestor Orbit Speed, Ancestor Orbit Distance, Ancestor Attack Speed, Ancestor Cast Speed, Ancestor Melee Damage.
How does this help game health? There are two areas where this helps specifically. First, there are totems referred to as "Ancestor Totems" that are only identifiable by name. This fixes that problem by making them identifiable by tag instead, while also expanding upon the concept. Second, Ancestor Totems can be seen as a must-pick on those they benefit, even if there is nothing else Totem-related on the build. This fixes that by removing the buffs given from the Ancestor Totem gems. Don't the boots basically just keep things how they are? Yes, it's true that the boots still enable the current melee totem playstyle, but there are other uniques that enable degenerate gameplay as well and I would argue for making the boots incredibly rare to solve this problem over anything like removing the boots, especially since they're player-created. Final thoughts: I am, of course, very open to constructive feedback. Maybe if we get this shiny enough then GGG won't be able to resist the call of the ancestor totems. Unfortunately I feel like this upcoming league would have been a great one to have these changes in as far as theme is concerned, so that ship has sailed. Earthbreaker Totems would work with this since they summon Ancestor Totems, and I feel like it would be very fun to get spell totems in here as well. However, I'm not confident that it's a good idea to do so, haven't entirely thought it through, so don't want to suggest it. Edits: Renamed "Groundbreaker" to "Earthbreaker" because I am dumb. --- If you have a particularly strong opinion about this suggestion and want to see others like it, check out these: Monster Size 5 - Walking Big Bosses. Calamity - A hypothetical league with fighting factions that you create. Jewels and Tattoos - Keep both, Rework Both Last edited by DJFariel#2802 on Aug 23, 2023, 7:35:47 PM Last bumped on Jul 18, 2024, 6:20:47 PM
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Earthbreaker totems are also Ancestor Totems.
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Yep, and I don't think they'd need any changes at all to work with this. Having a bunch of slamming boys spinning around a target would be a lot of fun.
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Sounds fun for only totem playstyle, but totems are already pain for every melee build. This reads just nerf for already weak melee play, unless there is way to optout from "Ancestor" tags for other benefits.
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General Uber Uber Elder.
 That being said, it'll never happen, they are allergic to melee QoL. Good talk. |
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" The solution to melee lies outside of totems, and the totems are problematic to the archetype. I really think the problem of "melee bad" can be ignored in favor of discussing how to make totems worthwhile, and the solutions to melee can be discussed elsewhere without talk of the totems polluting that conversation. " But this is totem QOL, so they should be all for it, right? Right? |
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I'd also like to point out that Ancestral totem builds used to be pretty big a while ago. I don't think they still are, but the things you talk about weren't necessary for Ancestor totems to be used as main totem builds in the past.
I brought up earthbreaker because its already a strong example of the Ancestor archetype that already exists. Take any slam skill and turn it into an ancestral totem, and then add totems. Not that your ideas are bad at all, just saying the archetype already exists, and even used to be popular. Last edited by jsuslak313#7615 on Aug 14, 2023, 7:44:41 PM
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" Is this comment in the wrong section? This is a fan-made suggestion, not any official change lol. |
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" Yeah, these are only suggestions, not actual changes. It's at least a little warming to think that they could be read as official changes, haha. |
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Maaaaaaaaaaaark!
Now that melee totems are dead, can this be considered a pitch for an ancestor totem rework? |
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