Instruments of Zeal and "when you attack" wording

One of the things I love about this game is how precise the wording is, and how much the differences among things like "more", "increased", and "+# to" matter.

Instruments of Zeal does not proc from Vengeance or other counterattacks. While this has been addressed in previous threads (https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3242330), I'm reporting it as a bug because other items with similar wording still trigger from triggered attacks like Vengeance, and there could be some improved clarity here.

Instruments of Zeal:
"
Gain 1 Fanatic Charge every second if you've Attacked in the past second

You do not gain charges from triggering a counter-attack.

Vengeance:
This isn't supported anywhere in the text, but counterattacks like Vengeance apparently can trigger "Cast on Critical Strike Support" spells, according to the wiki. I will test this later today to make sure it actually is the case. But this right here is why I based a build around Instruments of Zeal triggering off of Vengeance counter-attacks. Because I assumed it would work consistently across abilities, and it does not seem to.

Hiltless:
"
Enemies you Attack Reflect 100 Physical Damage to you
+2 to Weapon Range

This uses similar language to Instruments of Zeal. But if I have Hiltless equipped, the enemy does reflect damage to me.

Intimidating Cry:
"
Exerts the next 2 Melee Attacks you perform

Despite being melee attacks you perform, counter-attacks cannot be exerted by Intimidating Cry.

Echoes of Creation:
"
When you Attack, take (15–20)% of Life as Physical Damage for each Warcry Exerting the Attack

Since counter-attacks can't be exerted by warcries, it's bit of a moot point. But, if we could, it's unclear whether or not we would take damage from it. Hiltless logic says we would, but Instruments of Zeal logic says we wouldn't.

Cast on Skill Use bench craft:
"
Trigger a Socketed Spell when you Use a Skill, with a 8 second Cooldown

Here, the usage of the word "Use" as opposed to "Trigger" or "Use or Trigger" makes it clear that the skill has to be actively used by you hitting a button.

Asenath's Mark:
"
Trigger a Socketed Spell when you Attack with a Bow, with a 0.3 second Cooldown

This is a doubly moot point. First, because there aren't any bow counterattacks. But more importantly, because a triggered skill theoretically can't trigger another skill unless it is specified.

Scold's Bridle:
"
Your Skills deal you 400% of Mana Spent on Upfront Skill Mana Costs as Physical Damage

Here, the use of the passive voice ("of Mana Spent" rather than "of Mana You Spend") makes it clear that regardless of if you actively spend it, you are going to take the damage.

Kitava's Thirst:
"
50% chance to Trigger Socketed Spells when you Spend at least 100 Mana on an
Upfront Cost to Use or Trigger a Skill, with a 0.1 second Cooldown

This effect does occur if the triggering mana cost comes from a trigger, according to the wiki. But unlike Scold's Bridle, this uses the active voice ("you spend") rather than the passive voice ("of mana spent" or "of mana spent by you"). It's compensated for in the text by specifying "to Use or Trigger", but it is an example of what I'm talking about.

I would suggest one of the following:

1. Language around triggers should be standardized. Generally, items and skills differentiate between "when you cast a spell", "when you trigger a spell", "while channeling a spell", and "when you cast or trigger a spell". Attacks should do the same, by replacing "when you attack" with "when you use an attack", "when you trigger an attack", and so forth.

2. Similar to 1, but standardize around "perform" as the Attack equivalent to "cast" for spells and "use" for skills to indicate self-cast, instead of using "Use" for both attacks and general skills.

3. Usage of the passive voice to indicate when the source of the skill, whether trigger or self-cast, does not matter, like in Scold's Bridle. This would mean Hiltless should be changed to "Enemies attacked by you" rather than "Enemies you attack".

I have spent far too much time on this, but I really love the extremely precise wording in this game and how things work the way that they are described. Also, I definitely spent a couple of days sorting through what does or doesn't trigger off of General's Cry attacks and what triggers Instruments of Zeal. And there is no way to figure it out at the moment, except for just trying stuff and seeing how it works.

Alternately, it would be cool if Instruments of Zeal could proc off of counter-attacks. But I understand that this would probably be way too strong.
Last bumped on Aug 17, 2022, 11:43:54 AM
This thread has been automatically archived. Replies are disabled.

Report Forum Post

Report Account:

Report Type

Additional Info