fortify is still rekt

for the love of god can we please just fix fortify?

what is the problem with just fixing the thing?




you made these changes to fortify in the recent patch so it ignores damage reduction or something, but it still doesnt work.

im fighting iz in the uber uber lab with cyclone, with a character that has a total peak dps output of 7 million damage, and i cant get beyond 1 stack of fortify.

wtf is this? why cant we fix fortify so it actually works? what spell caster is doing 7 million dps with shield charge so fortify needs to be this way otherwise a caster might get it?


just give it back to everyone including casters if you cant be bothered to properly fix it, because this is just idiotic.


excuse the frustration but how long are you going to leave fortify completely fked since you first changed it? it still doesnt work.

I think the problem with the current iteration of fortify is that using it effectively requires you to build a bad character.

Generally speaking, there are three ways to scale attack damage. You can:

A - Scale Damage Over Time and slower, powerful hits (Bleed Earthquake, etc)

B - Scale attack speed (literally every other attack build)

C - Scale single hit damage

The current version of Fortify is designed specifically for Type-C builds. The problem is... Option C doesn't exist as a viable choice in PoE (anymore). Scaling attack speed is ALWAYS better for your net DPS than trying to maximize your single hit damage. This is, mathematically speaking, kind of obvious: attack/cast speed is a multiplier to your hit damage, just by its very nature. I've made multiple 10M+ attack builds in the last few years, but every single one of them got there by attacking 15+ times per second.

There used to be some niche applications of scaling big slow hits: stunlocking bosses up to and including the Elder was more than worth losing 60% of the damage a build COULD have had by scaling speed and raw DPS instead. But GGG took stuns out of the game, they made bosses harder to freeze, and they made it so easy to max out chill/shock by scaling "effect of ailments" that players no longer need those big hits to pull it off. So the archetype which was always worse at raw DPS lost the utility which gave it some minor niche applications.

And then Fortify was changed to only work with this dead archetype, effectively taking it out of the game as well.

right.


its so crazy. the thing is even if you have a super fast attacking build with low damage per hit, the amount of damage you are doing per hit on a melee build even at 15aps is so far beyond what a spell caster with a 0 attack damage roll mace is doing by bumping into someone with shield charge that even done like this i refuse to believe they cant set the numbers at a point where anyone obviously doing consistent melee damage gets the buff and someone who just shield charged with a void battery in their hand doesnt get it.



heres what they need to do:

make a cyclone build that does a total of 200k dps. load up the uber uber lab and attack izzaro. do you get 20 stacks of fortify?

if the answer is no then fortify still doesnt work and you need to lower the damage threshold.



forget 2 million, 5 million, 20 million dps, forget damage that high. the lower your damage on a melee build the more you need fortify. 200k dps should still have vastly more hit damage than using whirling blades with a spell damage rune dagger on a build that has no attack damage scaling. 200k dps builds exist, they need fortify, they should have fortify.



how hard can it be? just fix the numbers. i swear if i had a little box where i could tweak the threshold variable for granting a stack and then just run a sandbox of the endgame bosses i could fix the number in about 5 minutes.





devs forgive my frustration, but its just so frustrating that a core mechanic of melee hasnt worked in 4 months, something thats kind of vital to surviving as a melee character. its just a number, change the number, drastically, if you dont have an afternoon to properly test is just massively cut the threshold for granting fortify and if we have a couple of casters using shield charge between now and when you properly fix it then fine, thats a lot less of a problem than the defence you put in the game to fix melee literally not working.

Completely agree, the logical choice is to allow Fortify to add stacks based on damage done recently, so that 10 hits of 100 damage in one second provide the same net defense as a single hit of 1000 damage every second.

Or, have it work similarly to Arcane Surge in that it has an effect which scales with gem level, requiring increasingly higher cumulative damage dealt with supported skills to trigger, at which point you gain the buff for some preset length of time.

Either option makes fortify work for the second group I described above without changing it at all for Group 3, but I think specifically not working for cyclone et al was the point? GGG seems determined to make slow melee a thing and fortify is just another brave soldier sacrificed on that hill.

Video or this is just a bunch of lies. BTW, Izaro has nowhere near millions of life.
I'm getting plenty of Fortify with far less damage in Uber Lab. And the most recent changes affect exactly that - bosses.

Overall, the changes were insanely good, because you rarely see Fortify on casters. You people always outright fail to see the benefits of changes if they're bad - or intentionally exclude them - which in either case makes your reasoning look one-sided and thus absolutely terrible.

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Immoteph wrote:

Video or this is just a bunch of lies. BTW, Izaro has nowhere near millions of life.
I'm getting plenty of Fortify with far less damage in Uber Lab. And the most recent changes affect exactly that - bosses.

Overall, the changes were insanely good, because you rarely see Fortify on casters. You people always outright fail to see the benefits of changes if they're bad - or intentionally exclude them - which in either case makes your reasoning look one-sided and thus absolutely terrible.

I mean, if you want to say "fortify is so bad almost nobody uses it" counts as a good thing because casters are a subset of almost everybody... mission accomplished. But I'm pretty sure there's a solution between those two extremes, where the support is actually useful on melee builds without becoming yet another reason to play wand-shield caster.

By the way, since you brought up "things that make your reasoning look absolutely terrible," Uberlab Izaro has over 16 million life. So... that.

His life gets even more ridiculous at even higher levels if you use those infused offerings (I'm assuming that's what OP means when they said 'uber uber lab'). Level 78 Izaro has 32m HP and level 82 is 64m, so level 80 is going to be somewhere between.

I did not notice a problem with map bosses or uber izaro myself. t14+ harvest rare monsters on the other hand, I was lucky if I saw 3 stacks fighting them with boneshatter.

In my opinion the best solution would be scaling by ATTACK TIME instead of ATTACK DAMAGE.
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3193463

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Pizzarugi wrote:

His life gets even more ridiculous at even higher levels if you use those infused offerings (I'm assuming that's what OP means when they said 'uber uber lab'). Level 78 Izaro has 32m HP and level 82 is 64m, so level 80 is going to be somewhere between.

yes, uber uber lab, not normal uber lab. the proper dedication/gift encounters.


im cycloning the boss with this



with vulnerability and pride effecting the boss, with 100s of % of increased damage, legacy lions roar flask, flat physical on amulet, rings and gloves and i literally sometimes get 1 stack of fortify and then it falls off.


you dont need fortify fighting trash mobs or a joke map boss or the laughable walkover that is normal izzy, when you really need fortify, when it actually matters is a fight like uber uber lab and it just vanishes.



i can go make a 40 million damage build with items like these



and maybe ill get fortify against uber uber lab with cyclone... great, that doesnt mean fortify works, just because i can manufacture an example of where it works for a specific overgeared character doesnt mean the mechanic is fine where anyone who tests it with a mid level setup that does a few million dps cyclone will clearly see its not.

if i cant get fortify on some 200k dps kaoms primacy shitter cyclone melee build against content like this where you really need fortify then its broken.




im doing enough damage where imo im kind of trivialising uber uber izzy, the fight is not taking a long time, im phasing him quicker than i would argue the encounter is designed to be phased on average... and im still not getting more than a single stack of fortify.







you cant tell me the game cant tell the difference between the hit damage done by an axe like that on a fully invested melee build with 5 damage supports vs the melee attack damage being done by someone shield charging with one of these on a spell build with 0 attack scaling...




come on, its nonsense.