Still taking reflect damage with 110% reduced reflected damage taken

bug report reference number: 1,878,326,365

Doing an 18% elemental reflect map.

I have Soul of Yugul for 50% reduced reflected damage taken and I have elemental mastery for 60% reduced elemental reflected damage taken. There is no other global source of reflect on the map but there is 'Players and monsters take 12% increased cold damage' from a sextant mod. I'm not sure if it's an interaction with this mod that is causing a small amount of reflected damage to be taken on this map, there is no other mod that I can see that might interact with reflect or elemental damage.

I primarily noticed because my energy shield wasn't regenerating but then I tried engaging a pack and watching my ES very closely. Definitely taking reflect damage but a very small amount. Enough to make things significantly harder than they should be though and when I engaged Veritania at the end of the map I would fairly quickly deplete my ES (playing a CI build) when I fully opened up on her and I would have to back off and move my hydrosphere to encourage my ES to regen.

I highlight the reduced keywords above because, traditionally in PoE, they are additive and additive reductions of 50% (all) and 60% (elemental) should be treated as 110% (or 100%) reduction of reflected elemental damage. If there is some intended but hidden mechanic which, perhaps, increases reflected damage taken it might explain the phenomena; on that note I had thought perhaps the 'taking 12% increased cold damage' might be the problem as perhaps the reflected cold damage is increased by 12% to 112% and I am only reducing the reflected damage by 110% so 2% comes through. If this is the case I would just like to point out that this is an obfuscated (not to mention counter-intuitive) consequence of the sextant mod.

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced this is the case. I understand that the general method used is to bung all increases and decreases together but in the context of reflect I'm not sure that makes sense. Reflected damage is a fairly unique form of damage, when you reduce incoming reflected damage by 60% the intuitive expectation is that the total amount of damage being sent back at your character, after all increases and decreases, is reduced by 60% and no-where is this explained as being otherwise. Moreover, this interaction can have some fairly significant consequences for players and the opaqueness of the interaction makes those consequences quite unexpected. Something to think about regardless.

EDIT: Thinking about this even more, isn't this effectively double dipping? You do 12% increased cold damage to the enemy which is reflected back to you and that is then also increased by 12%?

Also ran the same setup and still got oneshot by reflects.

My line of thinking is similar to yours in that I believe the reduced reflected damage taken are additive and they have been in the past.

Afaik reflect is damage taken, and thus as you say combined with other modifiers within that group. So things such as map mods, some curses etc will affect the result.

Just ran into this myself with a similar setup where I was one-shotting myself on the boss in Cemetery with Maven watching. Cleared the whole map without issue, hit the boss and die repeatedly over and over again. For reference I'm doing about 15M lightning damage per second using CoC Arc with Mjolner/Squire and Doryani's Prototype at -191% Lightning rez. 3750 HP and 2300 ES, full resistances.

Map mods: Baran influenced
Area has patches of desecrated ground
Players are cursed with Enfeeble
Monsters reflect 23% of elemental damage
Unique boss has 45% increased life
Unique boss has 91% increased area of effect
Monsters gain a frenzy charge on hit
10% increased quantity of items
47% increases raritty of items
30% increased pack size

I have the pantheon passive for reduced reflect, an implicit on a cluster jewel for 10% reduced elemental reflect, and a scourge chest with 45% reduced elemental reflect. If they are additive that should be 105% which should make me immune.

Something else to note, I was previously using the 60% reduced reflect passive from Elemental Mastery instead of the Pantheon passive and had zero issues with elemental reflect maps or Atziri.

"

LightningFst wrote:

Just ran into this myself with a similar setup where I was one-shotting myself on the boss in Cemetery with Maven watching. Cleared the whole map without issue, hit the boss and die repeatedly over and over again. For reference I'm doing about 15M lightning damage per second using CoC Arc with Mjolner/Squire and Doryani's Prototype at -191% Lightning rez. 3750 HP and 2300 ES, full resistances.

Map mods: Baran influenced
Area has patches of desecrated ground
Players are cursed with Enfeeble
Monsters reflect 23% of elemental damage
Unique boss has 45% increased life
Unique boss has 91% increased area of effect
Monsters gain a frenzy charge on hit
10% increased quantity of items
47% increases raritty of items
30% increased pack size

I have the pantheon passive for reduced reflect, an implicit on a cluster jewel for 10% reduced elemental reflect, and a scourge chest with 45% reduced elemental reflect. If they are additive that should be 105% which should make me immune.

Something else to note, I was previously using the 60% reduced reflect passive from Elemental Mastery instead of the Pantheon passive and had zero issues with elemental reflect maps or Atziri.

probably you are shocked (the aliment)

ok so explain to me why i can run the whole cemetery map with elemetal reflect being shock + chill (non dmg ailment i inflict reflected back to me) then die instantly on the boss with no debuff yet?

"

Jujunull wrote:

ok so explain to me why i can run the whole cemetery map with elemetal reflect being shock + chill (non dmg ailment i inflict reflected back to me) then die instantly on the boss with no debuff yet?

Did you read that debuff you got from the map boss?

If not, read it


https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Gruthkul%27s_Despair