Tempest Shield Divergent vs Anomalous

I'm dedicating this league to this gem's skill rework, which brings my attention to how players have reacted to the Alternative Qualities for Tempest shield.

It boggles my mind that people think +2% Spell Block on a SCALING MOD is worth 2.3 Ex minimum, but +2 to +8 CHAINS is worth ..... *drumroll.....

5 Chaos.

Here's why this is a problem for me;
Even with no links discussed, the potential added 8 chains (Crest of Desire) essentially Quadruples your damage vs a single target with Hydrosphere active.

On a Crest, that also raises the skill to level 28/29, which has 29% Spell Block.

Level 21 Divergent Tempest Shield only has 28% Block, and has no reason to ever use a Crest of Desire, since you're not using TS for damage.

In other words, supposing you don't intend to support a 1 chain skill to bloat its mana reservation, at best, the skill's probably going to get 1 level from something, and both Anomalous and Divergent Tempest Shield will end up at 29% Spell Block.

Except .... one chains 2-8 more times than the other.

Why would anyone pay 2 Ex + more for 2% Spell Block, when Spell Block is about 3 times as abundant in the game/skill tree as Attack Block?

I understand when people attach a price to gems that add a hit or add damage to auras, etc.

It just seems weird to price 2 Spell Block the same way.

spell block is not 2-3x more abundant on the skill tree than attack block.

in fact spell block is basically non existent on the bottom half of the tree, the only wheel those builds might grab is sanctuary.

secondly most people use tempest shield for its defensive nature, so slightly more block = tons of value, slightly more damage on something that doesn't matter = who cares.

"

dorkdude2 wrote:

spell block is not 2-3x more abundant on the skill tree than attack block.

in fact spell block is basically non existent on the bottom half of the tree, the only wheel those builds might grab is sanctuary.

secondly most people use tempest shield for its defensive nature, so slightly more block = tons of value, slightly more damage on something that doesn't matter = who cares.

1) You're talking to someone who is almost max block/spell block without Glancing Blows. For each type of weapon, there is only 2 node clusters which involve attack block.

Spell Block on the other hand has 7 block clusters, most of which are not gated by any kind of weapon.

There are only 2 just pure "Block" clusters on the entire tree; the one by Templar is pure Spell Block. The one by Duelist is pure Attack Block.

Then you look at keystones And Ascendancies;

Duelist has a Keystone which gives 50% of block as spell block.
Glad has an Ascend that gives Spell Block for Block.

We can further narrow this by looking at just shield nodes, because TS is Shield only.

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You have no clue what you just said when saying "just a bit more damage."

1 Chain TS does nothing.
8 chain TS clears entire screens instantly by proccing 30-40 times a second.

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And again; Assuming people are using intelligent gearing that is efficient, BOTH versions will end up giving 29% Spell Block. (One by virtue of high level, One by virtue of Q)

So it's not more Block. It's the exact SAME Block.

except crest of desire is also....

3.5ex

id rather have the 2% spell block without the investment in this stupid hat.

"

Thror2k5 wrote:

except crest of desire is also....

3.5ex

id rather have the 2% spell block without the investment in this stupid hat.

so 3.5 Ex Helm vs 3.5 Ex Gem. Hmm...

Never mind double damage on helm making it stronger than a 6 Link without touching the reservation.

I've had 2 so far.

I bought the first at 9 Ex.

...Que?

Most people don't use Tempest Shield for damage purposes, but solely for the spell block. In that case the difference is that one quality gives you something, and the other... nothing?

It's really quite simple to understand. You painted a niche case where you use Tempest Shield for damage, and stating that this one quality is best for that. Sure. For the other 99% of Tempest Shield users out there the spell block is more beneficial. Add to this the fact that divergent is literally 10x as rare as anomalous Tempest Shield, it is really no wonder the prices differ so vastly.

Cool that you are enjoying a Tempest Shield build though.

"

Bardharr wrote:

...Que?

Most people don't use Tempest Shield for damage purposes, but solely for the spell block. In that case the difference is that one quality gives you something, and the other... nothing?

It's really quite simple to understand. You painted a niche case where you use Tempest Shield for damage, and stating that this one quality is best for that. Sure. For the other 99% of Tempest Shield users out there the spell block is more beneficial. Add to this the fact that divergent is literally 10x as rare as anomalous Tempest Shield, it is really no wonder the prices differ so vastly.

Cool that you are enjoying a Tempest Shield build though.

Same block rate though. So you're purely buying the rarity.

P.S. Initially when coded, the Q added 2%Spell Block per 5Q. That's why it's rarer.

I find it funny a Templar player would argue that it's only spell block, when Tempest shield is literally one of the skills that benefits most from Battlemage + Energy Blade. It's easily a 15k Base damage skill for Templar before even adding spell/lightning damage adjustments, Crit, Crit Multi, and chaining.

Not to mention Templar can ignore all elemental defenses, and guarantee exposure damage and Pen damage. Easily a 4-5 mil dps skill on a Templar.

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But hey; without any effort at all, I have 118% Spell Block, but still only 64% Attack Block before Bone Offering. 2% Spell Block really affects me.

"

rekikyo wrote:

"

dorkdude2 wrote:

spell block is not 2-3x more abundant on the skill tree than attack block.

in fact spell block is basically non existent on the bottom half of the tree, the only wheel those builds might grab is sanctuary.

secondly most people use tempest shield for its defensive nature, so slightly more block = tons of value, slightly more damage on something that doesn't matter = who cares.

1) You're talking to someone who is almost max block/spell block without Glancing Blows. For each type of weapon, there is only 2 node clusters which involve attack block.

Spell Block on the other hand has 7 block clusters, most of which are not gated by any kind of weapon.

There are only 2 just pure "Block" clusters on the entire tree; the one by Templar is pure Spell Block. The one by Duelist is pure Attack Block.

Then you look at keystones And Ascendancies;

Duelist has a Keystone which gives 50% of block as spell block.
Glad has an Ascend that gives Spell Block for Block.

We can further narrow this by looking at just shield nodes, because TS is Shield only.

------------------------

You have no clue what you just said when saying "just a bit more damage."

1 Chain TS does nothing.
8 chain TS clears entire screens instantly by proccing 30-40 times a second.

-----------------------

And again; Assuming people are using intelligent gearing that is efficient, BOTH versions will end up giving 29% Spell Block. (One by virtue of high level, One by virtue of Q)

So it's not more Block. It's the exact SAME Block.

1. your a top of the tree build, of course you are going to have an easier time capping your spell block, but you decided to grab it from your items it appears which... is a choice you can do I guess.

40% of your total spell block is being provided by tempest shield as well(29% of the 73%), 4% sanctuary wheel, 12% safeguard wheel(not really accessibly by bottom of the tree builds), 12% for both blocks from THREE replica reckless defence jewels(your sacrificing alot of Life/ES and damage to take those jewels), 10% from your queens hunger, 6% from your rainbowstrides

2. While there are only 2 wheels dedicated to attack block only, there is 2.5(putting .5 as one is sword specific) hybrid damage/block wheels and other separate notables for damage/block, also far easier to find attack block on a shield itself.

3. Versatile Combatant is an absolute garbage keystone for non evasion builds, evasion builds can consider it as they would be evading attacks regardless in favor of spell block which surprise they aren't evading. You have to realize this caps both of your blocks to 50% so you are better going off 75% attack block and 100% spell suppression in the majority of cases.


4. Gladiator no longer gives spell block for attack block, did you not read 3.16 patch notes how they gutted gladiator?

5. I do have a clue what I mean just a bit more damage, your doing a build that scales lightning and spell damage, have skills that add to its damage, imagine what a build that scales phys, cold, fire or chaos would do with it... basically nothing. You want to know what a level 21 tempest shield hits for on a pure phys character... 1053, where on your character it hits for 35.5k(and I haven't ticked anything in POB to boost it)



essentially your problem is that an alt quality that works better for your build is worth far less than an alt quality that works better for the majority of builds who are using it for the spell block and shock immunity, also happens to be significantly more rare. no where near the majority of players are gonna take all the random uniques to get spell block, they are going to grab some from the tree, maybe 1-3 suffixes on gear, and a crafted prefix on their chest and use items that benefit their main skill and actually help kill bosses... if you need tempest shield to help clear maps your build needs help.

"

dorkdude2 wrote:

5. I do have a clue what I mean just a bit more damage, your doing a build that scales lightning and spell damage, have skills that add to its damage, imagine what a build that scales phys, cold, fire or chaos would do with it... basically nothing. You want to know what a level 21 tempest shield hits for on a pure phys character... 1053, where on your character it hits for 35.5k(and I haven't ticked anything in POB to boost it)

Tempest Shield has a 220% Added Damage multiplier.

In other words any buff that indirectly adds damage to spells or just adds damage, has more influence on its damage than almost any other spell in the game.

Herald of Thunder/Ice, Added Damage on Boots, Added Damage Rings, Added Damage Auras (Anger), Added Damage Wands, Added Damage Abyssal Jewels, all dramatically increase its damage. Ideally I want Added Damage Implicit on my Circle, but I haven't been able to find that on a ring that has Efficiency, damage, or Damage/Buffs.

I don't care about full Phys builds, although a phys build can generally work with lighting simply by using Phys to Lightning Gem. I'm not trying to say it's an end all damage dealer. I'm saying that 2% Spell Block is small. REALLY SMALL.