Fix to Damage vs Defense Choice

So as mentioned during the 8/18/21 podcast defense is not in the best place right now, as acknowledged by GGG, and with the choice of more damage or defense, defense is usually neglected to increase damage. It a easy choice since while gaming the reward to choosing damage is easier to see, as the mobs melt faster in every map I do. While on the defense side it is harder to feel the incremental returns, mby I only died every 7th map instead of 4th with my investment into more defense?

A fix for this could be to rework the pantheon. Convert it into a mini skill tree that only focus on defense, similar to now but with more choices. Points could be rewarded for completion of acts. Side note: Would think this would remove the easy ability to swap we currently have and use points more like tree/ascendancy.

In fist half of acts (1-5) pantheon consist of known gods, Innocence, Tukohama, ect, and is mostly basic defense types - armor/evas/ES. Then expands with more specialty defense types with the killing of minor gods in later acts - dodge/block/MoM/charges/fortify/ect.

This would allow a tree that just focus on defense without having to sacrifice damage and lets you get a decent floor to start a defense strategy.

Not a bad idea about changing the pantheon system into something usefull.

BUT would this just make the power creep problem worse? For me it sure would since I could move some skill tree points from defence to damage...

i love this idea, big +1 for this.



im a defence whore, i love defence, i spec defence at the expense of dps as much as a hardcore player even in standard. but even im dropping defence for dps at points, not cause i want to, but just the math of it. there is so much damage there. example i got a 9k es char with totems, if i drop to 8k es i got something like 2 million dps... the amount of damage scaling thats there, our damage is so high that im even feeling forced to drop hp for damage, and hp is by far the best return for investment on the tree when it comes to general defence nodes.

how can you justify putting points into armour or evasion when you get so much damage for those points? i dont know that you can really fix that on the tree, i feel they did the right thing by folding so much armour and evasion into hp and damage nodes. i dont think thats a bandaid, i just think its adapting to the reality of how a skill tree like this inevitably plays out. even if u reduced damage on the tree, its almost a case where the more damage you got the more adding additional increased %s have diminishing returns, if you give people less tree damage it might even make every % of dps they can get from it even more impactful, i just dont know that its even a thing u can fix or would want to try and fix given how nerfs go down.





the idea of mini skill tree for defence is glowy brain >9000. a bit like the atlas passive trees right? like uncharted realms but a few more nodes?

they did mention pantheons are not in a good place and need reworked. i would actually be really excited for a mini defence tree.

Finally!!! Someone said something with some impact behind it.

I've been talking about defense for 3 leagues because it's always felt like doo doo to me.

Patheon looks like a cool idea i think...

Also we need more hybrid nodes on the tree.

Like damage/ life

Leech/ailment avoidance

Evasion armor ES/ ect

They need that on the tree... The tree is so damn specific right now that it makes no sense to path out the way to get more defense.

I agree with the offense/defense imbalance. I am glad GGG has been speaking more to community about these issues.

Right now in softcore it almost always better to jack your dps up and try to kill stuff off screen.

Most players who invest in defense either can't get enough to survive the hits anyway. The few who manage to get enough defense to survive often realize their build is doing such slow dps that the game is not fun enough.

There isn't much powerful defensive investment to be found on gear and passives in general.

Right now if I wanted to mostly survive on softcore most of the time for little investment block/dodge are good options, but it limits the build types to ones I don't prefer.

Right now builds that try to tank hits get way more wrecked than builds that don't get hit. There really needs to be huge buffs to builds who get hit a lot.

For example - bottom left corner of passive tree where tanky builds path put in a keystone notable called Raging Fury. Enemy hits grant 10 rage. If you've been hit recently take 20% Less damage.

Having more mods like this that make you more tanky if enemy monsters have hit you recently will allow you to introduce powerful defensive mods that do not benefit people who miss hits a lot. This should balance things out for the bottom left tree and promote actually getting hit which is what most players want to avoid.

Armour - is not a very reliable option right now. It mostly confuses new players who invest below average amounts in it and still die to big physical hits from bosses. Make armour a little bit more reliable against big hits or make scaling it cost less points. The people who make armour work usually invest a lot and know what they are doing, so I don't think armour will become overpowered.

example armour passive - Notables on bottom left corner where tanky party of passive tree is. 100% increased Armour if you have been hit recently. 100% increased armour if you have attacked with a melee skill recently.

Physical damage reduction - I have gotten this to 70-90% with a few exalted orbs investment and I came to the conclusion that most new players will never reach the high percentage cause the modifier is so rare. Having more options on the bottom left corner for this would make it easier to get this high.

example reduction passives - same location as above. 10% physical damage reduction if you have been hit recently. 10% physical damage reduction if you have attacked with a melee skill recently.

Uniques - Some powerful uniques focused on characters who get hit a lot would be great.

Example - A body armour that has no sockets like Kaom's heart does, but much more powerful tanky wise for players who get hit. 20% physical damage reduction if you have been hit recently. 10 to maximum resistances if you have been hit recently. Life Recovery rate is double if you have been hit recently.