One way to help Evasion without making it too powerful -- Reduced Damage From Critical Strikes
|
Plain English: Reduce additional (bonus) damage from critical strikes if you have high evasion with low damage reduction. Just the bonus damage, not the normal damage. What this does is further reduce Evasion's spikiness.
One big problem with buffing Evasion is that once you're already at endgame, already have lots of Life, ES and/or Armour, Evasion becomes quite valuable as an additional defense stat. Yet before that, before you get bunches of Uniques / OP gear, when you are still upgrading your gear relatively often, Evasion sucks before endgame; especially for Hardcore. Reduced Enemy Critical Strike Bonus Damage == Chance To Evade Attack - ( Damage Reduction On Attack / Damage Reduction Cap * Evade Chance Cap ) Notes: Values below 0 are set to 0. AFAIK, Evasion Cap is 95% and DR Cap is 50% Example: 70% Chance to Evade 10% DR 70 - (10/50 * 95) = 70 - 19 = 51% So if the enemy's critical strike does 100% bonus damage, that's reduced to 51% bonus damage. Note this is the bonus damage, or additional damage done from the critical strike multiplier. In the case of 100% bonus damage, the multiplier is 2.0. Example #2: 50% Chance to Evade 30% DR 50 - (30/50 * 95) = 50 - 57 = 0% Values below 0 will be set to 0, meaning no reduction. So yes, this means Armour/Evasion characters probably won't see much benefit from this (they already have a reduction). Example #3: 95% Chance to Evade (cap, probably from Arrow Dodging) 5% DR (from leveling) 95 - (5/50 * 95) = 95 - 10 = 85% You always have some armour due to leveling, which helps keep the critical strike reduction more reasonable. Additional thoughts: - Acrobatics (mod or keystone) should probably count as an effective 10-20 DR in this equation. - Probably have to factor in Block too. - Intended to be balanced with crit evasion. edit: grammar, syntax, etc. Last edited by generalmx#7853 on Mar 21, 2013, 3:06:15 AM
This thread has been automatically archived. Replies are disabled.
|
|
|
I'm fairly sure the crit re-roll from evasion is meant to simulate this.
If I like a game, it'll either be amazing later or awful forever. There's no in-between.
I am Path of Exile's biggest whale. Period. |
|
" Right -- this is intended to be balanced with the crit re-roll. Currently, if you have a 90% chance to evade an attack, that means about 1 in every 10 attacks will hit (with the way the entropy works for evasion) -- seems pretty good versus 40% DR. However, the damage dealt by attacks is still random itself, and can easily be very spikey. Let's say we have an attack that deals 1-100 physical damage: - The chance it'll deal 50-100 damage is 50 in 100 (50%) - The chance it'll deal 50-100 damage for 10 consecutive hits is 1 in 1000000 (0.1%). - The chance it'll deal 50-100 damage on that 10th attack from 90% evasion is also 50%. And this is all *without crits*. Now I know physical attacks tend to have a bit less range on their damage, but one should be able to plainly see the main reason everyone goes for first maxxing the damage reduction cap, and why the damage is just too spikey versus % damage reduction. |
|
|
Uh, do you understand the mechanics, cause what your saying doesn't seem to be.
DR from armour is based on the damage dealt. EV is almost not RNG at all, you evade the amount you are meant to. Evade on the critical is compeltely RNG though. So if you don't evade a hit, and it crits, you have a chance to evade the critical so its actually not a critical |
|
" Even though there's entropy in evasion, the damage dealt per attack is still random. Evasion having entropy normalizes this over a very large sample size, however, damage reduction helps to normalize random damage. Like I said earlier: Let's say we have an attack that deals 1-100 physical damage: - The chance it'll deal 50-100 damage is 50 in 100 (50%) - The chance it'll deal 50-100 damage for 10 consecutive hits is 1 in 1000000 (0.1%). - The chance it'll deal 50-100 damage on that 10th attack from 90% evasion is also 50%. This is WITHOUT factoring in damage reduction OR critical hits. The average for those 10 hits is already 50 per hit, reduced down to 25 by full 50% DR. Now one might say, "Well 25x10=250 and that's higher than 100", and that's true, but it's also not factoring in TIME: Evasion Scenario <-- You have full health. --> Enemy misses you. <-- You hit the enemy. You life leech and regen nothing. --> Enemy misses you. ^^^ above repeated 9 more times, until... --> Enemy hits you for 50 damage. (10th strike) <-- You hit the enemy. You life leech/regen/flask 25% of the previous damage. ...versus... DR Scenario <-- You have full health. --> Enemy hits you for 25 damage. (50% DR) <-- You hit the enemy. You life leech/regen/flask 50% of the previous damage. ^^^ above repeated 10 more times While you're taking more damage with damage reduction, it's further reduced by all the ways to restore life over time. This is why spikiness is so dangerous in PoE right now. In the DR Scenario, you gradually lose health, meaning if you get hit with a critical strike and/or spell damage, you'll have a better chance to withstand it. While if you get hit with spell damage right after that 10th strike, you're already down to a lower health amount than the DR scenario. This all means Evasion, by itself, gives you a greater chance to die before you have time to react. And sure, this is just all part of randomness...yet there's no equality in taking Evasion or Armour, as explained. All I'm suggesting is to help normalize Evasion just a little bit more so it can be a real contender for Armour. |
|
|
Perhaps they could just add some Reduced Critical Damage taken nodes near, or entwined with Evasion nodes (As to not require more points for same effect)?
But I think that's a rather neat idea, and would probably make full evasion builds transition more smoothly. Shmo's Suggestions; Dozen Skills!
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/402487 |
|
" I've (and other people) suggested very similar mechanics before, I've also suggested more DR nodes centred around the duelist (from mara to ranger) because of armour and evasion both being pretty crap. Imo, the most balanced mechanics for both eva and armour would look something like: -Roll for chance to evade (evasion) attack. --Roll for chance to deflect (armour) critical. ---Critical DR (evasion). -Overall DR (armour). For anyone saying armour is realistic (which is a super weak argument considering the game and context, btw), bullcrap, it is a hugely idealized, simplified mechanic that totally throws all kinds of geometric considerations out of the window. Anyway, regarding evasion itself. I don't rely on unreliable mechanics, maybe other people find it acceptable, I don't. Evasion is pure garbage in that sense, on average it's great, but it falls apart since it ranges from zero effect to super effective. I've had some really strange arguments about evasion before, people suggesting there is some kind of fundamental shift in behaviour if you stack evasion high enough. All that can possibly happen is that *on average* you have less bad results, or more good results. For effective mitigation I want to be minimizing the maximums consistently, but it doesn't and can't do that because the range doesn't change. Say hello to loads of HP/ES. For everybody interested in finding out how evasion functions at decent chance to evade: Start with a ranger, take the first few evasion nodes and put on some evasion gear, that's it, about as good as it's going to get. You're done, experiment complete. Nothing will radically change, you can augment it though, but the function is always the same. You will still get hit and you will still get crit, even if less often. I cannot ever see evasion as anything other than a secondary bonus stat, something that if free (or super cheap), makes me better, on average. The developers and many people feel it's working as intended though. |
|
