[Bug] Mod - Enemies Killed Explode Dealing 5% of Their Life As Fire Damage - Not Working With Bane

Bug 591,542,520

This bug is related to my Occultist Bane character when equipped a mace with the Shaper-Mod, "Enemies Killed Explode Dealing 5% of Their Life As Fire Damage."

When using Bane, the mod does not proc - perhaps it does not proc for all damage over time effects? Or maybe just for Occultists with Profane Bloom? Or spell-based DoT effects? I don't know. I've not tested for these cases.

What is apparent though is that this mod isn't proccing for my character:


If it procced there wouldn't be any - or at least as many - corpses on screen.

I equipped the same mace with my Trickster Winter Orb character and the results were entirely different - no mobs remain on screen once killed (they all exploded).
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Perhaps this is by design.

However, a counter-point to the "by design" interpretation is the behavior of the synthesized implicit, "Killed Enemies Explode Dealing % of Their Life As Physical Damage." The synthesized mod apparently - based on youtube videos - I've not tested this myself - does work with Bane.
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Based on the wording of both mods, either both should work with Bane, or neither should.

My preference, is that both should work with Bane. Numerous dead corpse effects occur in the game - corpse removal is virtually essential to death-free game play - to wit, Unstable Weta in delves.

The game should offer a means of eliminating corpses to DoT builds, regardless of damage source, so that such builds are viable for more content.

Otherwise, DoT builds become immediately less attractive - for example, deep delving - and perhaps other scenarios (e.g., hardcore, where porcupines, revenents - (not sure if this is the correct term - but the mobs that summon allies and explode dead allies after a time), and many other on-death/corpse effects.
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At any rate, there's a bug here - either in the wording of one or both "killed enemies" mods, or in the implementation of one or both mods.

Not a bug, weapon-specific Attack mod. Spells cannot trigger this.

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bvanharjr wrote:

Not a bug, weapon-specific Attack mod. Spells cannot trigger this.

Wrong. It works with other spells.

Update:
The "Enemies Killed" explicit seems not to work with spells doing damage over time. On my Occultist the following spells did not work:
Blight
Soulrend
Bane

However, the following spell did work:
Winter Orb

Again, I'm not sure if this behavior is by design, but if so, it's apparently not working the same way as the synthesized implicit "Enemies Killed" mod.

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Abdiel_Kavash wrote:

Currently, some of the "Killed enemies do X" mods only work with kills by attack or spell damage. Some other such mods work with all damage sources (attack, spell, damage over time, secondary).

This is intended, and unfortunately I do not know of an infallible way to distinguish between the two, other than trial and error.

Thanks Abdiel.

I can't help but observe though that the current state of affairs with respect to the "enemies killed" mods is, at best, highly undesirable.

GGG has historically been extremely careful with wording. When describing mods, identical wording has meant logical, and identical implementation.

I understand that GGG wants to limit mod descriptions to one line - that does not - at all though - mean that identically worded descriptions must at times have entirely different implementations due to a restriction on the number of characters used to describe the mods in one line of text.

GGG should standardize wording for these mods - subject to a one-line constraint - consistently using phases to distinguish how - exactly - a mod works.

In the above context, I consider the current state of affairs a bug. GGG can and should do better.
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(The following is a bit of a rant - skip reading here if you like)

Moreover, admitting that a bug exists here, opens up the question of just how the bug should be best addressed. With respect to the shaper mod discussed in this thread - might it be better to address the bug by changing the previously intended behavior of this mod? - deep delving - for example - is very dangerous due to the on-death effects of certain mobs - mainly unstable wetas. Might it be better to make the mod work with DoTs?

Changing the "killed mobs explode" mods to work with everything - spells, attacks, totems, mines, dots, whatever - and to chain - eases the accessibility of deep delving for many more builds. Yes, there are other ways of countering the wetas and the living azurites and other dangerous on-death delve mobs - but offering more ways to counter these effects can only improve the game as it makes more builds able to deep delve more easily by offering more ways of countering on-death effects.

In my case - Bane Occultist - I'm having difficulty crafting the synthesized implicit "enemies explode" - and the shaper explicit does not work. As a quasi work-around I'm using the Bubonic Trail boots - not ideal as I spent an exalt on another pair of boots for freeze immunity and must now rework my gear if I'm to retain freeze immunity while wearing Bubonic Trail.

Moreover, the Death Walk mod doesn't seem to be 100% foolproof against on-death effects - (probably - I haven't tested/researched this) you need to be moving for the mod to proc, and even when moving there seems to be a bit of a race condition - will unstable metas explode with you in range before the death walk mod procs? - beats me - occasionally though I seem to be hit for huge cold snap damage while in delves in spite of equipping the Bubonic Trail boots even while moving (but taking cold snap damage does seem to occur far less frequently while wearing the boots).