Ice Bite Vs Cold Pen Support Gems.

Hey all,

I'm running a Frost Blades Scion, and I'm debating my options.



Stick with the Cold Pen, or go with Ice Bite instead.

For other sources of Cold Pen, I'm running a level 13 Frost Bomb Cast When Damage Taken Setup, as well as Orb of Storms w/ Frostbite Curse on Hit. Part of me thinks that the Frost Bomb, and CWH -> Frostbite is enough Cold Pen?

you need all the frenzy nodes for ice bite to be viable, so really your comparing added cold to cold pen and the answer is probably cold pen for bosses, added cold for trash.

However you don't need extra damage for trash, so cold pen.

"

Draegnarrr wrote:

you need all the frenzy nodes for ice bite to be viable, so really your comparing added cold to cold pen and the answer is probably cold pen for bosses, added cold for trash.

However you don't need extra damage for trash, so cold pen.

Good point. I'm already approaching 30K DPS before I end up with any power / Frenzy charges.

"

Draegnarrr wrote:

you need all the frenzy nodes for ice bite to be viable, so really your comparing added cold to cold pen and the answer is probably cold pen for bosses, added cold for trash.

However you don't need extra damage for trash, so cold pen.

Funny, I was considering posting a similar reply, but with the conclusion that the OP should go with Ice Bite; since Cold Pen. would only really matter for bosses, but flat damage is flat damage (i.e. more universal). But you're probably right (about damage needed for trash).

@OP
I suggest you open up your calculator and do a bit of number crunching. If the "more damage" you would get from Cold Pen. against 0 resist mobs is better compared to Ice Bite, then it's a no-brainer:
Go penetration.

"

shoju wrote:

Hey all,

I'm running a Frost Blades Scion, and I'm debating my options.

Stick with the Cold Pen, or go with Ice Bite instead.

For other sources of Cold Pen, I'm running a level 13 Frost Bomb Cast When Damage Taken Setup, as well as Orb of Storms w/ Frostbite Curse on Hit. Part of me thinks that the Frost Bomb, and CWH -> Frostbite is enough Cold Pen?

Use Frost Bomb CWH Frostbite. I do it in my VPS and ST build.

Also Cold Pen is better, especially since you probably don't generate frenzies for bosses.

I would suggest replacing Faster Attacks gem with Added Cold and Melee Physical with Multistrike. You will notice a much nicer clear and single target damage setup with those links.

also run a warchief totem for extra melee damage against single target since you will be dealing melee damage in that range anyway

I'm wondering why people are giving answers without asking for more information about the setup, cuz it's kinda relevant here. Like really really relevant.

Looking over your gear and tree, ice bite (and added cold) would be HORRIBLE choices, you have virtually no 'increased' modifiers that apply cold base damage, you're pretty much entirely scaled on physical damage. Cold Penetration is better by a good margin.


On a related note, that tree is... kinda ugly, tbh. Lotta weak clusters, and you haven't grabbed the winter spirit or fangs of frost clusters despite being very close. It also looks like you're sorta crit but not really, cuz you've only got a tiny amount of crit chance and no multiplier, which kinda defeats the purpose.

this tree might be a little better, although you'd wanna spec out of scion's assassin line and into something else (probably elementalist and slayer or champion)

+1 to pre-poster.
but with a little addition.

ice bite means frenzy charges, thats a more multiplier + atk speed.
if u want faster clear, thats your choice.

if you would want better boss dmg instead of the extra clear,
(and you can not sustain frenzies through the boss fight)
well now thats a whole different thing....

cold pen is only worth it if you have more then 60% (i believe) conversion from the gem.
could go with passives here or potentially the 50% gloves or even temple gloves.

but even then, it still depends on the damage you already have and how much pen you already have.
i assume you use 2 jewels, thats 30%,
now if u go ass mark, chances are you would still benefiit greatly from some extra pen.
if you use cold curse instead, (-44% cold res), then chances are, you would benefit more from some extra "tool tip damage" then the pen.

in other words: which is better for your setup depends on a few more things,
and that again leaves you with 3 options:

1) you read how damage n monsters works.
base damage, added damage, added damage effectiveness, resistances, more multiplier, crit and you then fator in your APS. that will lead you to a defenitive answer (after acouple days of reading ;) )

2) use pob, sort by dips.

3) go with Shppys answer. which indirectly says "learn how conversion works".
looks to me he knows how to build and is willing to help :)