I really hate lab

I just played a character to lvl 66, so i would be able to complete cruel lab, but when i entered i died to a fucking trap in the second room. Im not on hardcore, because i hate the feeling of having to redo stuff when i make a mistake, which is probably one of the reasons i hate lab this much.

So i did not loose my char, and I had not been in the lab for more than 5 mins when i died, but still it made me feel like quitting the game for the weekend. It really amazes everytime, just how bad the lab is. Levelling is ok, but when i reach maps, and i have to begin doing the labs, i almost just give up on the char. Please GGG, the lab is the worst shit you have ever done, it is completely out of genre with the rest of the game, and a lot of people dont want to do it ever. Please remove ascendancy point from it. Or at least make it, so that higher tiers of lab unlocks points for itself and tier below it, so completing uber lab would give you all your points.

I dont know what to say to this anymore. It has been bothering me ever since i set my foot in that shithole of a mistake (the lab). If it is not changed at 3.0.0, im not sure i will contenue playing this otherwise amazing game.

And for the record, i dont belive that lab haters are a minority at all. Its just a minority that gets so pissed by the lab, that they decide to write a forum post everytime they die there, like i do.

Also, asside from the ascendancy points, who do you belive enjoy the lab? Every lab farmer i have ever seen on youtube, say that they dont mind the traps too much, but they love the loot at the end. So even the ones playing the lab all day, dont really like it. And you cant say the same thing abaout all ways of farming. I actually like mapping for example, both the loot, but alsom the actual gameplay.

So to sum this up, some people hate lab so much that it is making them quit the game (me), a lot of people just hate the lab in general, and a minority of people have learned to tolerate the lab enough to farm it. No one likes it.

Thank you for this thread. This will be added to the argumentum ad populum pile post-haste.

Surprise surprise, your last sentence is incorrect, OP. I really like the lab. Decent for leveling when in act 3 of the respective difficulty, nice change of pace, good loot and somewhat of a challenge when done on level or underleveled. Makes some nice dodge training.

"

鬼殺し wrote:

Bumping for Turtledove's convenience.

PS I like the Labyrinth. A good build can tackle it as soon as the trials are done, walk away with a good 2-3 levels and an incredible boost to power for the rest of the game. I'm not the biggest fan of having to run its current length three times (uber is something I never plan for) but I am confident the annoyance of that will be addressed in 3.0.

But I like the labyrinth, and believe me, I'm not no one.

Well, "Labyrinth" could be so much more. Right now, it lacks true purpose.

First of all, it should have at least a more intricate map layout with at least 3 paths from first room to the last Aspirant's Trial.

It should have either more visibility and better trap layouts to discourage the spam of MS/quicksilver potions, so you should always make relevant choices regarding pathing, and more monsters that should either be lured in traps or be fought with them in mind (as a viable prepare multi-tasking sequence before last Aspirant's Trial), or ways to forfeit speed running trap gauntlets for disabling them - either master switches in additional chambers that stop the traps from one of the paths, protected by dangerous enemies (multi essence modded rares level of dangerous), or even better making all traps from a path destructible, but time consuming in that regard - request a specific number of hits of a set minimal damage amount per trap.

For gaining the Ascendancy points each run of "Labyrinth" should be on a random layout, and limit the parties that run "Labyrinth" of players that have at most 2 more Ascendancy Points than the one with the smallest number (and Izaro should gain some bonuses when some players are more "powerful" then the others, just to keep the fight fair). "Carries" should be allowed or encouraged even, but at a just difference. And make Izaro fights start after everyone joins the Aspirant Trial fight area, so you at least fight for your life, if not fight versus Izaro for those points.

As soon as you get your points you can partake in the "speed run" ladders with the daily layout.

That would improve "Labyrinth" by giving him a purpose regarding minimal skill check - you navigate traps or you fight difficult enemies/destroy traps but forfeit your chance at the "speed running ladder" (even when you want to make enchant runs), and most of all, you will face one of the enemies that should make you tremble in fear, and experience an exacerbated enthusiasm when you face and vanquish him alone or with party members by your side. Not to mention the further gear/build check that will have to be passed in order to survive the Aspirant encounters.

When they implement those changes, you will see that the numbers of complains regarding Labyrinth diminish, even without an additional change regarding waypoints/portal numbers to have a chance to finish the run even if disconnected by server, just because GGG will take a stance and provide a fairer way to get that end goal that Ascendancy points are by making you work for them every time (even with the Hardcore feeling that you get one shot at completion, when you find yourself encouraged to explore the "Labyrinth" as a genial addition to content makes the reward more sweeter than ever).

The Ascendancy points are build defining, and "power creep" at it's best, so they should be given for a substantial effort from the players behalf.

"

鬼殺し wrote:

But I like the labyrinth, and believe me, I'm not no one.

Anyhoo... :P


I'm not opposed to the idea of the lab, but like with so many things, the execution is really lazy.

- The non-bossfight parts are way too boring and long. If I wanted to fight endless hordes of white mobs, I'd farm dried lake. At least I'd get an occasional Vaal side area out of that.

- Some of the trap mechanics just don't make sense. Why create ostensible movement puzzles when the best strategy is to just pop a quicksilver flask and run through?

- The Izaro fights operate mainly on overloading your senses to the point where you can't keep track of all the things trying to kill you, similar to the Act 4 bossfights. Is that really the only way GGG can challange us anymore?


I built an RF char specifically for farming uber trials and lab. I can reliably do 3-4 key runs. But after a few of them, I simply cannot force myself to do any more. That is not a sign of engaging content.

issue with 'destroyable traps' is that it will be what we have now - clown fiesta dps bonanza.. with current level of dps (that i do not expect to go anywhere but UP in 3.0) dps-based challenges are no challenges whatsoever. these only REWARD meta-only players. these plaeyrs do not need to be rewarded even more


traps irritate people so much because they cannot one-dimensionalize them ie. out-dps any skill check

so idea of traps that can be destroyed should not be pushed.

MS/quicksilver spam.. well. this is what this game is all about right now. so this part of the lab is EXACTLY what the rest of the game is: your clear speed (efficiency or 'how good the build is') depends mainly on your movement speed. 30% MS on boots can give a player bigger clearspeed boost than a mirrored weapon.

as long as the best (sorry, but it simply is this way.. i do not like it) way of playing POE is clear speed meta zoomboomzoomboom - lab should stay as it is. it rewards people doing EXACTLY what the rest of the game encourages: sprinting trough the content

this btw is the part that always makes me laugh when lab-haters claim that lab is so different than rest of the game. it isnt - it rewards exactly the same skill-set and mind-set. the only difference: no-skill glass cannons have it much easier in maps. lab can wipe them..



btw one-time entry should stay too. most 'DC' complaints are just chicken script users hiding their true agenda. if you allow people to zerg it - you can just as well remove it altogether and give everybody a free mirror and a sash of exalts. the last challenging (as in personal skill check) content gone..

"

鬼殺し wrote:

A random layout is exactly what I've been arguing for for ages -- making it 'daily' is stupid, as all it does is encourage crap like a site that tells everyone about the day's layout.

Dont think random Izaro mods would be an improvement. It would make the threat level too random. That predictability is IMO a good thing about the daily layouts. Although this could be approached in other ways.

The thing which I currently dislike very strongly about the lab is the "pure RNG" enchantment overwrite system.