Discharge Hierophant build - did nobody tried that?

Just like the title says, I just checked build section for templars... and I cannot find any decent discharge builds (except one uber-expensive one). Why it is strange to me? Let's look:

If we get Hierophant ascendancy and grab "Conviction of Power" we get:

"25% chance to gain an Endurance Charge when you gain a Power Charge
15% chance to gain a Power Charge if you or your Totems kill an Enemy"

Now, with some fast hitting spell, like blade vortex with power charge on crit, we should get easy and fast power charge + endurance charge generator. Perfect for discharge... so, why nobody is going that way??

Am I missing something?

The build is viable, but there is much better option out there, namely assassin and juggernaut.


The problem with discharge is how u generate it. Assassin can use voll's protectors and capped crit chance with discharge to generate power charge. Juggernaut generates by using enduring cry and warlord's mark.

With these two classes, hierophant is not optimal choice to make discharge build.

also if your running discharge on templar, inquisitor is pretty much superior than heirophant in every way.

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build8991 wrote:

Spoiler

The build is viable, but there is much better option out there, namely assassin and juggernaut.


The problem with discharge is how u generate it. Assassin can use voll's protectors and capped crit chance with discharge to generate power charge. Juggernaut generates by using enduring cry and warlord's mark.

With these two classes, hierophant is not optimal choice to make discharge build.

Thanks, that answers my doubts quite nicely. Still, with this new spectrum jewels hierophant 40% MoM and 25% mana as ES... looks nice. So I will theorycraft for a bit longer around this class.

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SIQI wrote:

also if your running discharge on templar, inquisitor is pretty much superior than heirophant in every way.

Why? I don't see anything so significant in his ascendancy

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Alex_Lied wrote:

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SIQI wrote:

also if your running discharge on templar, inquisitor is pretty much superior than heirophant in every way.

Why? I don't see anything so significant in his ascendancy

Because there are already easy ways to generate charges for CoC discharge without ascendancy classes (there always were). Assassin makes the critting part really easy, but with an inquistor you can scale the damage decently when you do crit, and get enough attack speed that you're inherently critting more often (because you're attacking more often). CoC discharge wants attack speed, crit modifiers (if you run elemental focus then you always get that 100% increased crit chance), and elemental damage, and that's what the inquisitor gives you.

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HikaruYami wrote:

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Alex_Lied wrote:

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SIQI wrote:

also if your running discharge on templar, inquisitor is pretty much superior than heirophant in every way.

Why? I don't see anything so significant in his ascendancy

Because there are already easy ways to generate charges for CoC discharge without ascendancy classes (there always were). Assassin makes the critting part really easy, but with an inquistor you can scale the damage decently when you do crit, and get enough attack speed that you're inherently critting more often (because you're attacking more often). CoC discharge wants attack speed, crit modifiers (if you run elemental focus then you always get that 100% increased crit chance), and elemental damage, and that's what the inquisitor gives you.

20% is not high enough to prefer that over other ascendancies. Same with 100 % increased crit chance, since since "+0.5% Base Critical Strike Chance per Power Charge" will give you much more.

The only useful bonus here (in case of discharge build) is "Ignoring elemental resistances" on critical strikes, especially in mapping.

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Alex_Lied wrote:

20% is not high enough to prefer that over other ascendancies. Same with 100 % increased crit chance, since since "+0.5% Base Critical Strike Chance per Power Charge" will give you much more.

The only useful bonus here (in case of discharge build) is "Ignoring elemental resistances" on critical strikes, especially in mapping.

Sorry, what? We were comparing Hierophant and Inquisitor, not Assassin and Inquisitor. You were already told that Assassin is just plain better, to which you responded "So I will theorycraft for a bit longer around this class", and then you questioned why Inquisitor was better than Hierophant for this very particular build. So I told you.

SIQI's base assumption was that you were dead-set on running templar. given that, Assassin is no longer an option. So his and my point was that you should pick Inquisitor over Hierophant. The charge generation is just not that valuble. SIQI is absolutely right that inquisitor is just plain a better choice than hierophant for a CoC discharger. Neither SIQI nor I ever tried to compare inquisitor to Assassin. Please unstick your head from wherever dark place it was when reading my previous post.

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HikaruYami wrote:

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Alex_Lied wrote:

Spoiler

20% is not high enough to prefer that over other ascendancies. Same with 100 % increased crit chance, since since "+0.5% Base Critical Strike Chance per Power Charge" will give you much more.

The only useful bonus here (in case of discharge build) is "Ignoring elemental resistances" on critical strikes, especially in mapping.

Spoiler

Sorry, what? We were comparing Hierophant and Inquisitor, not Assassin and Inquisitor. You were already told that Assassin is just plain better, to which you responded "So I will theorycraft for a bit longer around this class", and then you questioned why Inquisitor was better than Hierophant for this very particular build. So I told you.

SIQI's base assumption was that you were dead-set on running templar. given that, Assassin is no longer an option. So his and my point was that you should pick Inquisitor over Hierophant. The charge generation is just not that valuble. SIQI is absolutely right that inquisitor is just plain a better choice than hierophant for a CoC discharger. Neither SIQI nor I ever tried to compare inquisitor to Assassin. Please unstick your head from wherever dark place it was when reading my previous post.

Sorry, maybe I made it harder to understand than I intended. I was just making a point that if you advice others ascendancies as candidates for discharge build, Asassin would make more sense to me than Inquisitor - he gives very good critical chance boost and free power charges generator. Inquisitor on the other hand is..... just good. He is generally good ascendancy for almost any build - either melee or spell caster. There is nothing which makes him especially good for discharge over other things, while Asassin or Hierophant bonuses makes them good only for specific builds or when you build around them.

And I am not set dead-on on templar-discharger. As I said:

"Still, with this new spectrum jewels hierophant 40% MoM and 25% mana as ES... looks nice. So I will theorycraft for a bit longer around this class."

... I just want to test how much you can get out of these new jewels and hierophant seems good for it.... and while I was theorycrafting around this idea, I found that nobody is making discharge hierophant even through he has this charges generator bonus for free. Which seemed strange to me.... but now I know why, for which I thank you all.

Thats all, sorry for being misleading :)

Played a heirophant mana to es character in the 1month flashback recently.

Main advantage the class has over inquisitor / trickster / assassin is the amount of ES you can get by stacking mana. It's fairly easy to get 5-6k max mana so with the new heirophant that's a lot of ES.
You won't need elreon jewelry to use cyclone as a heirophant. On the one I made in the 1 month I had something like 500 mana regen a second and 120 mana left over after reserving to auras about 98% of my mana.

But that will come at a good bit of a dps loss and that's probably the main reason the other classes are better.

To be fair I personally think heirphant coc discharge is better then inquisitor and assassin but probably not better then trickster. Inquisitor has problems getting enough ES and assassin probably has that issue and mana problems too. Trickster could be better because of the bonus ES and attack speed it gets.

I have no clue if the new grand spectrum jewels make heirophant version by far the best but they are like 1ex per each one so I wouldn't build around them myself.

TL:DR Heirophant would be a good choice if your more focused on max ES.

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Alex_Lied wrote:

Just like the title says, I just checked build section for templars... and I cannot find any decent discharge builds (except one uber-expensive one). Why it is strange to me? Let's look:

If we get Hierophant ascendancy and grab "Conviction of Power" we get:

"25% chance to gain an Endurance Charge when you gain a Power Charge
15% chance to gain a Power Charge if you or your Totems kill an Enemy"

Now, with some fast hitting spell, like blade vortex with power charge on crit, we should get easy and fast power charge + endurance charge generator. Perfect for discharge... so, why nobody is going that way??

Am I missing something?

There were multiple Mjolner Hierophant builds last league that worked pretty well. You can generate endurance charges with Romira's Banquet without having a Voll's.

That and Romira's Cold Snap have been the best applications I've found for this node.