Content gating and Malchairuns (An Ode to Baal)

I think the consensus everywhere on the forums, reddit, irc and twitch is that content gating by RNG isn't fun. But this thread isn't entirely about that. This thread is about giving us an alternative to the content that was gated.

So then we have Malachai - content with amazing potential - which is a lot like Baal in Diablo 2, a boss that people killed billions of times.

In Diablo 2, players who wanted to reach level 99 were doing Baal Runs repeatedly. The run consisted of fighting 5 waves of enemies (Reminds me of Doedre, Shavronne and Maligaro) and then finally fighting Baal himself. There was no content gating. To be honest, there was not much content at all. Most of those who reached level 99 did so illegitimately due to how boring it became after a few hundred/thousand runs.

Some interesting info from the Diablo 2 Wiki:

"

This shows how many runs are required for each level up, and cumulatively, to move from 90 to 99. Note that almost 2/3 of the total runs are required to go from 98 to 99. A very fast player, especially one playing with turbo help from friends, could conceivably spend more total play time going from 98 to 99 than they did going from 1-98. Interesting balance the D2 patch designers have wrought, there.

It appears that GGG tried to recreate that run but something shifted on the way. They probably realized that doing the exact same run thousands of times is not the best game design.

So..
We have maps that we can't play due to RNG.
We have a boss we don't want to play due to efficiency.

I don't know guys, it's 5 in the morning. I forgot what I wanted to say.

I guess what I'm coming at is that if GGG don't want players hitting level 100 in 2 weeks, perhaps PoE needs that crazy coefficient XP-requirement at higher levels, making it extremely long to go from 99 to 100. Frankly, nearly nobody cares about that anyway. We just want to play the damn game. Those who do care about reaching max level will reach it no matter what kind of restrictions are put. On the other hand if you keep maps RNG-gated, at least fix Malachairuns to become the new Baalrun.

I'll sleep on it and think about it a little more in the morning. Good night!

I like the idea. I never liked maps anyway so an alternative solution is always welcome.

Good fucking memories right there.

I wish they would stop caring so much about level 100. Going from 95-100 makes no fundamental difference for a character, it's just a time sink that only no-lifers will bother to put themselves through. Making that process take even longer has no effect on the rest of us (unless it's done by taking away all of OUR maps, too), but it also doesn't have much of an effect on the overall game. So why bother putting resources into doing it?

Let the crazypeople reach 100 in two weeks. Who. Cares. It will take most dedicated players many months, if not years, for each character - and we all roll way more than just one character. Finding more and more creative, far-reaching "solutions" to the "problem" of streamers playing 24/7 to reach level 100 is just causing unintended collateral damage to the rest of the playerbase in order to fight a war that GGG cannot win.

I say screw it. Level 100 took forever for most of us anyway, even in 1.3 and even with old Untainted Paradise, packsize mods, magic monster mods, and double beyond maps (I didn't spam those things, but some folks did). And who made it to level 100 and stopped playing because of it? They rerolled, or played a new league. Getting the best gear and optimizing a character to the point of doing the toughest content are much more time-consuming, skill-based goals than grinding away forever on levels.

Basically, GGG needs to invest its limited resources on other issues and put preventing elite players from progressing on the backburner.

So this deal with level 100 - We're not even sure if the goal of RNG gating is to stop players from reaching level 100, or just to keep them interested and playing the game longer, the former is just an assumption. I think that the method is inefficient for both cases nonetheless.

Anyway, back to the Malachairun:

• Doedre, Shavronne and Maligaro should be worthwhile and give XP and better loot to all present players
• Animations (mini cut-scenes) should be shortened. If the group's DPS is high enough to melt Malachai, they should be able to do so without waiting through all the phases
• XP from a full Malachai run should be raised to allow players to reach level 100. I'm not sure if the 5000+Diablo2 style runs is a good idea, perhaps a lower more realistic number like 2000 is a better balance.

And about maps:

• Make end-game maps easier to sustain
• Apply an XP coefficient to slow down XP progress in end-game maps
• Retain the benefits of mapping - access to truly unique Uniques and high ilvl base items for crafting

This will result both in slowing down the Etups of the community from reaching 100, will give everyone an alternative to mapping as well as allow players to play harder map content if they so desire.

If you don't wanna players to hit 100 "too fast", then for the love of god nerf the XP curve, not the content!

"

Frankly, nearly nobody cares about that anyway. We just want to play the damn game.

+10^100000...0000..billion

I still don't really see what "content" is gated by the rng. Maps 77+ are exactly the same content as maps 76-, just different bosses (that you already saw during levelling), monsters hitting harder and different tilesets (that you already experienced during levelling).
But if xp is not a real problem for you, I have a question. What if maps drops were not changed (i.e. you can't sustain above 76 solo) but maps dropped have randomized tilesets/bosses. Means for example instead of dropping a 75 canyon, you can drop a 75 core with Malachai or a 75 excavation with the trio boss, would that be ok to you ? You would "experience" all the contents, but still be limited in terms of xp gain/highest mods on items possible.

Most players don't care about reaching level 100, but in a game with levels, there's not one that doesn't care about a sense of progression and achievement.

Doing level 72-75 maps at level 92 does not feel like an achievement and certainly like I'm getting nowhere.

"

Dawmz wrote:

I still don't really see what "content" is gated by the rng. Maps 77+ are exactly the same content as maps 76-, just different bosses (that you already saw during levelling), monsters hitting harder and different tilesets (that you already experienced during levelling).
But if xp is not a real problem for you, I have a question. What if maps drops were not changed (i.e. you can't sustain above 76 solo) but maps dropped have randomized tilesets/bosses. Means for example instead of dropping a 75 canyon, you can drop a 75 core with Malachai or a 75 excavation with the trio boss, would that be ok to you ? You would "experience" all the contents, but still be limited in terms of xp gain/highest mods on items possible.

Content =

* tilesets
* boss fights: dynamics / difficulty (Megaera is NOT the same fight as Coast witch in A1)
* difficulty, higher maps have higher base difficulty
* loot: ilvls, gated uniques

Naturally people want to play at highest theoretically available content. People don't want to faceroll easy content with their 90+ chars. RNG locked high content actually means you don't have to perfect your char/build, since you can't access higher levels (ok, you can buy anything and call it done, but that's not the point).

Your proposition would add some variety and I'd welcome it, but it would not solve the deeper issues. People get bored by faceroll 74 - 77 maps and want to get to the good stuff in a "reasonable timeframe". 150+ hours of mapping and still being in 75 - 77 maps, despite huge expenses, is NOT a "reasonable timeframe".

"

BullHorn7 wrote:

So this deal with level 100 - We're not even sure if the goal of RNG gating is to stop players from reaching level 100

It certainly isn't, since you WILL get some 79-82 maps from time to time, no matter how bad your RNG is, which means you WILL level faster than pre 2.0. You may need to invest more currency into your character to be able to do it, and you may be forced to buy some maps from time to time, but after that's been addressed it's just much faster leveling to 100.