Vaal auras should be trigger-able

I heartily maintain this. I understand why auras can't be triggered, but Vaal Grace, Haste, Clarity, and Discipline are merely temporary buffs, and as such, there's no reason I know of why they couldn't or shouldn't be trigger-able.

But maybe I'm wrong! I sure would love to trigger Vaal Clarity or Vaal Haste with Cast on Damage Taken, though.

I see no reason that it shouldn't be possible... though I doubt that it would see much use. You would still need the souls to be fully charged, and Vaal skills tend to be used very specifically and tactically because it takes so long to charge them up.

How would you feel if you're on your way to the boss room, and some random mob walks up and whacks you, triggering your Vaal gems, and now you can't use them against the boss?

I think preventing them from working with proc setups, and I mean no offense, but was to make sure noobs didn't accidentally link them and get a bad proc. It also makes setups easier for pros if they need the sockets but don't want the wrong supports; disabling this makes it easier.

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Natharias wrote:

I think preventing them from working with proc setups, and I mean no offense, but was to make sure noobs didn't accidentally link them and get a bad proc. It also makes setups easier for pros if they need the sockets but don't want the wrong supports; disabling this makes it easier.

Please tell me how linking Vaal Haste or Vaal Clarity would be a "bad proc".

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tsftd wrote:

I see no reason that it shouldn't be possible... though I doubt that it would see much use. You would still need the souls to be fully charged, and Vaal skills tend to be used very specifically and tactically because it takes so long to charge them up.

How would you feel if you're on your way to the boss room, and some random mob walks up and whacks you, triggering your Vaal gems, and now you can't use them against the boss?

I collect damage for CoDT at almost the same rate that I collect souls for Vaal Haste (for example), so it would actually be perfect. It was one of the things that prompted me to go ahead and post about this issue.

And I would rather use those Vaal auras when I'm taking damage, and therefore need a temporary buff. I use Vaal Summon Skeletons for bosses. ;-) Quite often my CoDT triggers during the boss fight, as well.

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Obright wrote:

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Natharias wrote:

I think preventing them from working with proc setups, and I mean no offense, but was to make sure noobs didn't accidentally link them and get a bad proc. It also makes setups easier for pros if they need the sockets but don't want the wrong supports; disabling this makes it easier.

Please tell me how linking Vaal Haste or Vaal Clarity would be a "bad proc".

He was referring to the Vaal gems triggering when the player didn't want them to, like I mentioned in my post.

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tsftd wrote:

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Obright wrote:

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Natharias wrote:

I think preventing them from working with proc setups, and I mean no offense, but was to make sure noobs didn't accidentally link them and get a bad proc. It also makes setups easier for pros if they need the sockets but don't want the wrong supports; disabling this makes it easier.

Please tell me how linking Vaal Haste or Vaal Clarity would be a "bad proc".

He was referring to the Vaal gems triggering when the player didn't want them to, like I mentioned in my post.

Well then I responded to both when I responded to you. :)

In any case, ANYTHING attached to a trigger could be a bad proc, because it can only be used when you trigger it, which might not be the best time.

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Obright wrote:

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Natharias wrote:

I think preventing them from working with proc setups, and I mean no offense, but was to make sure noobs didn't accidentally link them and get a bad proc. It also makes setups easier for pros if they need the sockets but don't want the wrong supports; disabling this makes it easier.

Please tell me how linking Vaal Haste or Vaal Clarity would be a "bad proc".

The way you phrase it makes me think you don't know what I'm talking about nor know what procs are.

A proc is a system where, ususally, you take something or do something and something triggers from it. You take damage, a defensive spell fires. You hit something, an offensive buff fires on you. And so on.

If you have Vaal Haste, Vaal Clarity, and Cast When Damage Taken, both of those auras will proc every time CWDT has filled its quota, regardless of whether you want them to activate or not. This can lead to bad procs because CWDT doesn't refresh, it remembers how much damage is left for the next proc and doesn't care if only one enemy nearby did it or if a boss did it. It will proc.

That's why I don't think they should be procable. Having one enemy hit you and then it triggers both ruins the entire point of having them.

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Obright wrote:

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tsftd wrote:

I see no reason that it shouldn't be possible... though I doubt that it would see much use. You would still need the souls to be fully charged, and Vaal skills tend to be used very specifically and tactically because it takes so long to charge them up.

How would you feel if you're on your way to the boss room, and some random mob walks up and whacks you, triggering your Vaal gems, and now you can't use them against the boss?

I collect damage for CoDT at almost the same rate that I collect souls for Vaal Haste (for example), so it would actually be perfect. It was one of the things that prompted me to go ahead and post about this issue.

And I would rather use those Vaal auras when I'm taking damage, and therefore need a temporary buff. I use Vaal Summon Skeletons for bosses. ;-) Quite often my CoDT triggers during the boss fight, as well.

Oh, sure. But I'd rather have them for a boss or tough situation than any generic damage that poses no threat.

It doesn't matter if you take 3k damage instantly or 3k damage over ten minutes, CWDT will still proc regardless.

So I'd rather use them when I know when I need them, as opposed to them proccing just because I was dealt up to 3k damage. Wasteful, to say the least.

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Obright wrote:

Well then I responded to both when I responded to you. :)

In any case, ANYTHING attached to a trigger could be a bad proc, because it can only be used when you trigger it, which might not be the best time.

No, because those other skills do not require souls nor do they have significant cooldowns.

I use this:



CWDT (level 1, 440 damage) procs after just about any initial hit from just about any enemy. This means enemy damage is lowered by a flat 22%, which negates, roughly, one in five hits outright. Temporal Chains slows enemies by 22%, which means there is at least slightly more space between all of the incoming hits. Overall it's a 39.16% reduction in enemy DPS, but it only misses out on the first initial hit of one enemy.

It procs often, keeps the curses up, and has no cost. That's why I did low level.

None of those procs are ever bad.

You are right, I had absolutely no idea what a proc was.

But still, my point is valid.

As I was going through a map recently, I noticed that my Vaal Haste was full, and then a while afterward I would have my CWDT trigger. I couldn't help but think how nice it would be if I could just trigger those buffs when I needed them...IE, when I'm taking damage. Whether you use a defensive buff for CWDT, or an offensive one shouldn't matter. I like to use a combination for my CWDT trigger.



The zombies help me both offensively and defensively, as does Molten Shell. Temporal Chains is a "buff", but an offensive one.

Do they sometimes fire when I don't really need them? Yes, but that's the nature of trigger gems...you pay for some of that timeliness with some of your control over them.

Using Vaal gems adds a dimension of complexity to things, but honestly...Vaal Haste and Vaal Clarity both require a MAX of 32 souls, which is basically nothing. Vaal Discipline and Vaal Grace require a maximum of 48, but that is still easy to pull off multiple times on a map. I can usually pull off 2 Vaal Summons Skeletons at least on one map run, and that requires 64 souls.

Point is, by the time CWDT is ready to go, ALL of those Vaal gems would be just sitting there waiting, ready to go. Does this cut down on their strategic use? Sure, in the same way that my current setup limits my strategic use of Temporal Chains, or Molten Shell...again, that's the nature of trigger gems.

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Obright wrote:

As I was going through a map recently, I noticed that my Vaal Haste was full, and then a while afterward I would have my CWDT trigger. I couldn't help but think how nice it would be if I could just trigger those buffs when I needed them

Yeah, it's called self-cast. You do what you need, when you need it.

Procs do it when you've taken a set amount of damage.

Look at my setup. I run into a mob of leaping/charging enemies and all but the first deal reduced damage. It procs not only when I need it but when I take the damage.

With a level 20 CWDT, your vaal skills (assuming they have the souls), would only proc after the majority of the mob has hit you. If you don't have the souls, they don't do anything at all.

CWDT is not only proccing them when you don't need them, but also takes up a socket that could be Increased Duration, Empower (not that useful), Faster Casting, or other things like Spell Echo.

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Obright wrote:

The zombies help me both offensively and defensively, as does Molten Shell. Temporal Chains is a "buff", but an offensive one.

Zombies do nothing. They require a corpse, only have a few thousand hit points without any significant defenses, and with the upcoming change won't be half decent distractions.

Molten Shell only gives slightly more than 1k armor, which is useless, and only detonates after it has mitigated some physical damage.

Not the best spells to use in a CWDT setup.

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Obright wrote:

Using Vaal gems adds a dimension of complexity to things, but honestly...Vaal Haste and Vaal Clarity both require a MAX of 32 souls, which is basically nothing.

Actually, Vaal Haste requires 48 souls. And if memory serves, souls are split between the two. This means you need to collect 80 souls before either can be triggered. Well, actually 79 but only one will be fully operational.

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Obright wrote:

I can usually pull off 2 Vaal Summons Skeletons at least on one map run, and that requires 64 souls.

64 for each cast, yes. And it offers very, very little for its cost.

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Obright wrote:

Point is, by the time CWDT is ready to go, ALL of those Vaal gems would be just sitting there waiting, ready to go

Well that's a bad point since it's wrong.

It's easy to take 3k damage and not have any souls.

It's hard to gather 80+ souls without taking 3k damage.

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Obright wrote:

Sure, in the same way that my current setup limits my strategic use of Temporal Chains, or Molten Shell...again, that's the nature of trigger gems.

No, it's not.

Trigger gems are supposed to trade power for automation. Not use for use.

If it was about "strategic use", we'd see more Fireballs, Firestorms, Arcs, and other non-utility spells in proc setups. But it's not about that. It's about power and automation.

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Obright wrote:

Does this cut down on their strategic use?

Yes, and vaal skills are supposed to be used strategically, not whenever you take damage.