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#1 Assassin's Garb Mirror Service/Ascendancy Shop https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1582279
#1 Labyrinth Speed Running Service https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1601363
Last edited by fkurself on Mar 15, 2017 6:29:42 PM
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#1 Assassin's Garb Mirror Service/Ascendancy Shop https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1582279
#1 Labyrinth Speed Running Service https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1601363
wauw such mirror. Very Deepz. Very doge.

-.-
How many you donate in game ?
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Makarov24 wrote:
How many you donate in game ?


Are you asking how much I have donated to GGG? If so around $400.
#1 Assassin's Garb Mirror Service/Ascendancy Shop https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1582279
#1 Labyrinth Speed Running Service https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1601363
Well there are two major things I do not like here.


Why CI? how much es do you have with all your mirrored gear? And you still can easily be shotgunned. Any life build with 1/5th of the investment in your gear does about the same dmg and is a better tank


And you are saying you can play this with 10-20ex but in the same moment: "Gloves: Atziri's Acuity" this has to be a bad joke.
Most of your prices guess are wrong like: Amulet: Double crit, wepon ele dmg, flat es or % es or strength, 10ch-3ex.
And have you tried playing this with a 200es helmet (not even talking about rat's nest) +300es chest how much es do you get in total with this 3k with lvl 90? And you will have to be high level to just get the dex and str to wear the bow. And on top of all of that if you are not one shotting everything in this game then the low lvl gear will get you killed by stunlock, freeze and an es pool that is so low, that even burning ground will kill you in moments.



Tbh. I don't care that you post and show how nice your gear is (and man it is nice!!!) but declaring it a build and then adding a low budget version that is 100% not viable is just not fair to anyone who might want to try such a build.
So if you have to call this a build at least be honest and name it highlevel and expensive valid only but don't pretent you have tested any of the lower versions.
Last edited by low_Unam on Feb 17, 2015 5:43:44 PM
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Completed 13 Challengeslow_Unam wrote:
Well there are two major things I do not like here.


Why CI? how much es do you have with all your mirrored gear? And you still can easily be shotgunned. Any life build with 1/5th of the investment in your gear does about the same dmg and is a better tank


And you are saying you can play this with 10-20ex but in the same moment: "Gloves: Atziri's Acuity" this has to be a bad joke.
Most of your prices guess are wrong like: Amulet: Double crit, wepon ele dmg, flat es or % es or strength, 10ch-3ex.
And have you tried playing this with a 200es helmet (not even talking about rat's nest) +300es chest how much es do you get in total with this 3k with lvl 90? And you will have to be high level to just get the dex and str to wear the bow. And on top of all of that if you are not one shotting everything in this game then the low lvl gear will get you killed by stunlock, freeze and an es pool that is so low, that even burning ground will kill you in moments.



Tbh. I don't care that you post and show how nice your gear is (and man it is nice!!!) but declaring it a build and then adding a low budget version that is 100% not viable is just not fair to anyone who might want to try such a build.
So if you have to call this a build at least be honest and name it highlevel and expensive valid only but don't pretent you have tested any of the lower versions.


Thanks for the input. I will try and answer all of your questions and concerns. I will start with why go Ci, then how I started this build on 15ex worth of items, then your issue with my pricing and how I got to those prices, your concern with str and dex requirements, shotgunning, then finally some things about my final build.

TL:DR
In conclusion, answering your questions in order: Ci is better than life, I can hit 12k es without and auras, shotgunning is not and issue to a more experience player, my prices are validated and correct, I have played this build on a 15ex budget and it was end game non atziri viable (without Acuity's), and I named this build expensive and late game oriented near the start of the guide.



I will start with the why Ci question, I explained all this in the guide. Blood rage is an over powered steroid that has no downside with Ci unlike its massive drawback on a life build. Plus running blood rage gives you free frenzy charges that you can keep at full stacks almost 100% of the time. You get a massive effective life pool that makes not having armor or evasion a non issue. Ci with vaal discipline is the strongest defensive mechanism for a non tank build. With gaining almost 2k es per second plus leech, you almost literally cannot dies for 5-6 seconds with increased duration. Plus a massive few thousand increase to effective life immediately is a big bonus. Another thing with going Ci is you can spent less points on defensive stats than with a normal life build, giving you more options for damage. I did not go over this last point in the guide as I forgot about it.

I started this build off with only 15 ex worth of gear and specing into vaal pact and I had no problems clearing level 78 maps. I had a 450 es chest, rainbows (100 es), 250 es helmet, 90 es gloves, and a 300dps bow running two five links. I hit over 6k es this way with around 40k dps at level 80, making it totally viable to run with not much currency. I also stated in the pros and cons section that this build is end game oriented and expensive. However if you have the currency you can pick up Acuity's and only spend under 20ex to finish a strong end game build.

As for buying lower tier gear, if you know how to look things up by exclusion on poe.trade, you can find items with two or three t1 roles and master craft another mod to make good gear, this is how I based my prices; I spent a couple hours checking to make sure they were all correct. For an example you can search for a ring that has flat es, strength, and attack speed, then exclude weapon ele dmg. You will find many rings that have the few mods you need, with mid to high tier rolls going for only a few chaos. You then simply master craft weapon ele dmg on the ring and you have a great item with 4 key mods that you need. I just did this, and there were plenty of rings as low as 3ch.

As for being high level I stated in as one of the cons that you should already be doing maps before going into an es build. Since it is hard while leveling to find es gear it is more effective to run some ok life gear then respect when you are level 60-70. As for the dexterity and the strength requirements, dexterity is no problem as you are picking up lots while branching into the node clusters. For the strength I outlined that you will need 98-102 strength from items and the tree to run level 20-21 gems. This is easily achievable since you are right beside 3 +30 strength nodes, and with some strength from jewelry and picking up a Doryani's Invitation (which you can pick up decent rolled ones for 10-15ch), you should only need 1 +30 strength node.

As for the shotgunning issue, I simply put that in because you have low evasion and armor in this build. People new to this build might have some problems when they first start playing because they are used to just standing still and spamming pots to live. Once you get used to playing this build shotgunning is no longer an issue. I explained this in the guide as well and also added a tree variant for people who were having some problems with getting shotgunned when they first start playing.

For the amount of es that I have going a more tank build I can sit at 12k es (no discipline or vaal discipline), but I usually like to hang around 8k es since that is all you really need, unless you are doing super rippy maps with double reflect. As explained above shotgunning is not really an issue I just put it in there for newer players to be weary of.

In conclusion, answering your questions in order: Ci is better than life, I can hit 12k es without and auras, shotgunning is not and issue to a more experience player, my prices are validated and correct, I have played this build on a 15ex budget and it was end game non atziri viable (without Acuity's), and I named this build expensive and late game oriented near the start of the guide.

Hopefully this answered all of the questions that you had, even though most were answered throughout the guide (it was a lot of text so I don't blame you for not reading or skimming, I would have). And again thanks a lot for the input I will use it to make my guide better and clear some issues up with it.




#1 Assassin's Garb Mirror Service/Ascendancy Shop https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1582279
#1 Labyrinth Speed Running Service https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1601363
I read most of your build and as stated above, I can't belive you, if you leveld with that stuff post a tree for vaal pact and how it is vialbe with CI, plz. And some defensive screenshots as well. Also some videos with none mirrored gear would be nice. The trading part is something we could argue about for a long time, imho you can not buy the gear you need to make CI viable for 10ex, you will need a good dps harbinger 5l(or do you need it 6l?) you will need rings and amu with %es, wed and accuracy or other stats, etc.

You argue that you have to go ci to get the full benefits from bloodrage, I would call it a big downside that you don't get the attackspeed from it, but that is an other point. I just don't see where it is that great, you get 10% phys leech, that is nice but you still have to be carefull with reflect, and you get frenzy charges, that is some attackspeed. Nice but I don't see where that is overwhelming, and you can have all of that on a life build as well and pretty cheap, curse on hit, hot, poachers mark -> frenzy charges cwdt warlords mark free leech and more then just 10% phys, cause it is all your dmg.

You do not use a few points on your def, cause you are stretched over the tree to get to these points. Just did a quick count, and not taking the pathing points you have to take 26 points just for def. (using your standard tree) which is not that much, but all you get for them is some ES and ghostreaver), to give you a fair comparrison, on my windripper ranger I use about 34 points, but I am also getting ondards guile, accro, phase accro, a good bit of evasion and I can use lighting coil and so you can't say that my dps sucks, I can get have 75k selfbuffed TS GMP dmg with 5dmg links, with a 260dps bow and 0 mirrored or mirrorworthy gear).
Also you state that you can get to 12k es, well where is the problem getting 7k life? You stated yourself that you don't use the 12kes tree so why mention it? I could build a tree with 7k life and a legacy koams, but how does that matter if you don't use it. And the necessety to respec into that 12k es tree to do rippy maps for sure makes fun: like how can I spec to do this shit, or to do atziri, but since you don't use it as your normal tree you shouldn't use it as an argument to prove your point.


Vaal disciplin is just not the best def in the game. Compare it to immortal call or vaal imortal call, all of these are good on their own, and I wouldn't say one is better then the other.

Towards shotgunning (or getting stunlocked, the term I learned for that problem) sure it is an issue if you can't kill stuff very fast, you have one thing that helps you and that is the 50% stun protection from having ES (you claim practical application helps you, but you do not cast, you attack so it does nothing, unless GGG stoped beeind precise on their wording), besides that you have no mitigation against getting hit you have 0 evasion on gear and you have super low armor as well.


So again, I have no problem seeing that this build is strong and fun with the gear and tree you use, but I don't think it is good or strong (and hence fun to lvl) with medium or cheap gear. And I do not see anyreason why you want to got CI over life.
Last edited by low_Unam on Feb 17, 2015 8:35:56 PM

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