Randomized Miniature Quests, Secret Rooms and more

Hello all (avid PoEers and hopefully devs ;-)),

There's thing I've been wondering for a time now: How can the "grind" in ARPGs (whose concept is running the same dungeons time and again) be combated?
I mean, looking at the father of Online-ARPGs (Diablo II and LoD), they don't really offer much. The maps are randomized. But the events in those maps -and even the monster types encountered- always stay the same. Only difference: LoD introduced "guest monsters" in its higher difficulty levels years after its release.

So, does it have to be always the same? Well, let's look even further back, to Diablo. The grandfather of ARPGs.
Surprisingly, it featured two mechanic that (for me) made playing the same game time and again vastly less "grindy".


Firstly: The monsters encountered in a specific level were not always the same. That's a good thing, design-wise, since the player can never "settle" or memorize which monsters he will fight.

So, step 1: Mix your monsters.

Step 2 comes from Diablo, too: It featured a quest system where only a handful of quests were implemented in each play-through, while others got left out. This added immense replay value since you could never be sure which quests would be available and which not. This adds a certain "exploration" factor to the game, even if you've played through it a thousand times.

Step 2, therefore: Implement randomized areas in the game that offer not strictly quests, but unique mechanics. Diablo's "Arkaine's Valor" is a good example. The player doesn't get the quest in town. Instead, he stumbles upon the crypt while exploring the Catacombs. He then has to "solve" a puzzle in order to claim the unique armour.
In this spirit, PoE could have such "special areas". They would have a chance to appear in a zone. They needn't even be quests.

For example: In the Chamber of Sin there could be five braziers strewn throughout the level. The player would have to light them:
Lighting the first:
An eerie female voice whispers through the Chamber: "What...? Is it time, my love?"
Lighting the second:
Louder: "It burns, too bright. Who is this? (pause) This is not my love!"
Lighting the third:
Now the eerie voice hums a lullaby.
Lighting the fourth:
Dreamily, sing-song: "Black, eye-hollows scream at me, voiceless. His sharp grin gashing, my red blade working, he will always be my love."
Lighting the fifth:
Angry: "Interlopers! You will not have him!" (Simultaneously, a fiery line will burn the way from the last brazier to a now opened torture chamber in which a unique boss monster ("Ilya, the Bridesmaid") and her minion ("Ilya's Love") awaits.

I'd imagine that there could be about 2-5 possible mini-quests per area (depending on the size). It would be random if any are up, and if any are, how many (I'd say two at most in the large areas). It would be a lot of work, but I think it would be worth it (plus, more could be added at any time, even after release)


Step 3: Another thing that detracts from "feeling the grind" is having to concentrate on your surroundings (instead of just pressing buttons and jogging through the rooms). There are already a few things that work as I imagined (not everything lighting up when the ALT key is pressed). But I think there could be more: Like hidden chambers.
It's a simple idea, really: Some open if you click on the right part of the wall. For others, you'll have to activate a nearby lever. And others still, you have to smash open (should work with bows as well, for balance reasons). Or hidden behind curtains/drapes etc. Inside those chambers could be chests with a slightly better-than-average chance of good loot.

Feedback on those ideas would be welcome :-)

I really like what you have here.

Notably random quests, even after Merciless, I'd love to have odd things to do while I grind monsters.

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Xorjt wrote:

I really like what you have here.

Notably random quests, even after Merciless, I'd love to have odd things to do while I grind monsters.

That'd be a nice idea, too: The further you progress in difficulty, the more available quests are "unlocked".

So, while the RNG would draw only from two different quests for a zone in Normal, in Cruel an additional quest get unlocked, and two more in the -then- final difficulty (since GGG wants to have three difficulty modes in the end, I think I have read).


And those events could be as small as one boss that is a bit different. Like "Zhar The Mad" in Diablo: When first approached, he'll give you a book and tell you to leave him alone. When you approach him again, he attacks.

There could even be bosses/small encounters that aren't linked to a specific zone, but spawn randomly anywhere. There could be no clue that such an "explorer mob" is in the zone, or there could be one (like additional audio).

Honestly I gotta agree. Making randomized sidequests and such would improve the replayability. I hope a developer sees this.

I think there are some great ideas in this thread, and hope that GGG devs are reading along :)

I like this thread.

I too hope a dev reads this.

I like the ideas, above all the added monster variety. Also, it would help convey that "cutthroat" feel the game is supposed to give.

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Avireyn wrote:

But I think there could be more: Like hidden chambers.

Well... that could work out, but there should be clues. Otherwise I'd run around clicking every wall just to make sure not to miss out on any loot...

"

iRrational wrote:

I like the ideas, above all the added monster variety. Also, it would help convey that "cutthroat" feel the game is supposed to give.

"

Avireyn wrote:

But I think there could be more: Like hidden chambers.

Well... that could work out, but there should be clues. Otherwise I'd run around clicking every wall just to make sure not to miss out on any loot...

Aye, there should be clues. In the case of the lever: Easily done. The lever is the clue.
Other clues could be: Audio cues (like a faint wind in a dungeon - where would it come from?) or visual cues (like guttering torches, cracks, or bits breaking off a wall when you run past.
Or like they did with many lootable props: It displays its name only when you mouseover, not when you press ALT:


By the way, thanks for your support, guys :-)


P.S.: While playing through the Prison today, something occurred to me: Having the possibility of said hidden/random rooms, areas, bosses and whatnot would also greatly increase the urge to explore a dungeon fully, instead of rushing through in the search for the exit.
It's an incentive to stay a while and... erm... listen. Probably.

"

Avireyn wrote:

the urge to explore a dungeon fully, instead of rushing through in the search for the exit.
It's an incentive to stay a while and... erm... listen. Probably.

Due to my pseudo-exploration OCD, I tend to explore each area fully - but again having that extra incentive to look for hidden loot makes exploring all the more worth while.

That, and I play with the map on almost all the time, just like I did back in Diablo.

-snipped the page-stretcher-

Yep, had the same thing in D2, I just HAD to explore the whole map before I went on...