Bandit Quest reward balance
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The options:
1 passive 8% to fire, cold, and lightning resist 45 hp 30 mana This seems off to me, because the 8% resists is just massively ahead of the other options in balance. Here are common options for passive in the skill forest: 6% hp 8% hp 6-7% mana 10% mana First, nodes that give better than these are few and spread out. What jumped out at me is that I just hit level 40, and put a point in the 6% hp passive. And got 25 health. And I'm a low-health Witch (lowest health class iirc). So I get 25-35 health for 1 passive as the LOWEST health class. Simlarly, the lowest mana class is going to get 15-30 mana when they put a point in a mana passive. Which means that both of these rewards are worth "about" 1 passive skill, if you are super weak in that category. However, the problem is the Kraityn reward option. Most the resistance passive nodes I've seen are just ONE resist and under 8%, except for the "occasional key location" passives. Which means that the Kraityn reward is worth 3 passive skill points (while the other options are worth 1, or less). NewDude: I killed Brutus. Now I have no quest. So what now?
Guy: I guess there are people that NEED quests for direction. Guy2: I always wonder how those people get through life. GuyMontag: They get married. Wives are like quest-givers. This thread has been automatically archived. Replies are disabled.
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"But that's because you're the lowest health class. A marauder would likely have a large number of % increases to life, all of which would act on the additional life, such that their maximum life value would increase a lot more than 45 if taking the +45 life reward. You got a 6% increased life passive and saw an increase of 25 life. Part of that is because you likely have very few other % life increases - because they're all additive, the more you have, the less actual increase you'll get to your final life from each - going from 0% to 6% total increased life is a bigger difference than going from 100% to 106% total increased life. So a character focusing on life would get more bonus than you from the +45 life, and less from the 6% increase. On top of the fact that you got a 25 life increase, which is actually half of the minimum 45 life increase from the bandit reward, so I'm not sure why you would say it's worth 1 passive skill - surely at least two, even for your character, who gets less from the bandit reward and more from the passive than a life-focused character would. +45 life and +30 mana are a significantly bigger bonus than anything you could get from a single passive for the classes likely to take them. | |
" You actually made my point again Mark. The thing is that a Marauder who puts a single passive point into 6% health will likely see MORE than a 45 hp increase. Meaning that, relative to the value of a passive point, the hp/mana bonuses are nearly worthless to most classes (Witch/Dexint like hp, Marauder/Duelist like mp). And 45 hp as a Witch? Even, at best, if it is worth 2 passives (which it isn't. its close to 1.5), I would rather spend the passives to reach some hp, and take the % elemental resists. The weighted value is even higher (3 passives). NewDude: I killed Brutus. Now I have no quest. So what now?
Guy: I guess there are people that NEED quests for direction. Guy2: I always wonder how those people get through life. GuyMontag: They get married. Wives are like quest-givers. |
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At level 100 (unrealistic I know) your stats are:
550 Health 440 Mana 45 Health is about an 8% increase in health. 30 Mana is about a 7% increase in mana. I am using level 100 stats merely to represent the inadvertent Int and Str increases that non-specialists will often incidentally get. The point here being, the rewards are more balanced than they appear to be, though perhaps the Mana one could be brought up to 35. Additionally, because these are base values being tweaked, they have stronger implications than most effects. The reason they seem poor is because all of the effects are individually poor and only show strength in summation. It would be nice to see more quests like this one, perhaps without the skill point option. Edit: The issue of elemental resists maxing out is a real one and should be noted when trying to value the last option, which I won't even try to judge. Last edited by RysanMarquise#6790 on Feb 9, 2012, 6:13:40 PM
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" So wait? you mean you have to make a choice on effectiveness based on your class/build? Say it ain't so... |
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The point isn't that hp/mana are better for some classes than others.
Its that the elemental resist is better for all classes than the health or mana. And yes, the resists can cap out, but if you take time on your gear, that's a much less likely scenario. NewDude: I killed Brutus. Now I have no quest. So what now?
Guy: I guess there are people that NEED quests for direction. Guy2: I always wonder how those people get through life. GuyMontag: They get married. Wives are like quest-givers. |
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Apart from what OP created this thread for;
The problem about the rewards offered from bandits became like a joke since 0.9.5 serie, cause of the new powerful singular nodes which are nearly obligatory to be gathered. Kraithyn gives +8% all resists for each difficulty, on the other hand you could already invest a node that gives +12% to all resists. Thus this makes rewards taken from bandits pure rubbish. And most importantly i had mentioned this issue right after 0.9.5 patch notes thread posted back then, yet again no one cared to reply back to me. It totally discourages us collaborating with bandits, because the special nodes which are started to be implemented right with 0.9.5 serie, already surpassing bandits' offerings, and crush them to pieces. So in conclusion i must ask; why anyone on earth would ever wants to sacrifice his 1 skill point in sake of getting a lower/worser one, while a better/higher one could already be gathered in the tree ? Kraithyn's reward does not make any impact on character, mostly because without it, anyone could easily max their resistances, and since there is not a resistance spike for each difficulty implemented yet, there leaves no reason to think even for the 2nd time on decision. Therefore, bandits' quest rewards should be re-worked i must say. "This is too good for you, very powerful ! You want - You take" Last edited by BrecMadak#3812 on Feb 9, 2012, 7:19:04 PM
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What, you can't get those nodes without killing all the bandits? It's only four passives total difference. Given the choice of removing four passives from your build, somehow I don't think those "powerful singular nodes" are going to be on the list.
And wyldmage, I think you and I will have to agree to disagree on the benefits of each choice - I've never sided with Kraityn, because elemental resistance isn't that hard to come by on gear - never mind passives - and elemental enemies aren't generally hard to dodge. I have wandered through insanity;
I have walked the spiral out. Heard its twisted dreamed inanity In a whisper, in a shout. In the babbling cacophony The refrains are all the same: "[permutations of humanity] are unworthy of the name!" |
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"No, you completely misunderstood what I said. getting +45 life on a marauder is quite likely to give a lot more than 45 actual more life, because of all the % increases which they'll have from passives that will increase it. Whereas getting 6% increased life on a marauder will stack additively with all the other % increases they already have, making it add significantly less than 6% of what their life was before taking the passive. I'm certainly not saying they're perfect as is, but you seem to be hugely underestimating the effect of adding 45 life to a character who's got a bunch of % increased life passvies to affect it. % increases to life get less useful the more of them you have. straight additions to life get more useful the more % increases to life you have. Thus, for a character taking lots of % increased life passives, +life is better than more % increased life. Last edited by Mark_GGG#0000 on Feb 9, 2012, 7:19:46 PM
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"Not to argue with the rest of what you or others are saying, but this surely doesn't make a lot of sense. "You could" invest in a +12 to all resists passive? Who could? Not every character, and not every build. My marauder has hit a node like that, right in the path I wanted to follow, but I don't imagine I'll be taking one on my ranger anytime soon. Secondly, you're setting it up as a choice between +12 and +8 resists, when it simply isn't. You can get both and have +20%. Having said that, I take the +1 passive every time because I find progressing on the skill tree the most entertaining option. |
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