Suggestion: change the LMP/GMP drawback

Hi guys, after a "rage pause" caused by the extreme damage spikes in this game (i love to play tank, and i hate when they are hitted too much hard, even if i never died in a long long period with my tank), i returned to PoE deciding to give a shot to an advice of a friend: "Play glass cannon, you will eventually die and lose exp, but you will have a lot of fun". And it's true!!!! Now i am experiencing A LOT of fun with my full dodge/spell dodge (acro/phase acro + atziri's step + 3X vaal grace) caster.

BTW, one thing bothers me: projectile elemental spells. They in fact "start at a disadvantage" against other spells, because in order to be "more ample" in terms of "space covered" they NEED the gems LMP/GMP. And this is a huge loss of dps because not everyone has a 6 link (example: poor people, or new players, or folks that do not want to use a Tabula rasa for whatever reason -maybe because it has no life/res on it- etc)

Putting a gmp in a 5 link many times means 1 "more" gem lost (example: no controlled destruction), and 1 "less" gem gained (lmp/gmp). Example of 5 link imho: fireball - spell echo - penetration - elemental focus - gmp

So we have: only 1 "more" gem, 1 "less" gem (and mob's res)

This is an unfair thing versus, say, a Spark gem that has "built in GMP". Or versus a Ethereal knives that has built in GMP AND doesn't even need a penetration gem

So my suggestion for GGG is: why don't you change the drawback from LESS projectile damage to REDUCED CAST SPEED? For example:

LMP- lvl 1: 34% reduced cast speed; lvl 20: 15% reduced cast speed

GMP- lvl 1: 49% reduced cast speed; lvl 20: 30% reduced cast speed

Only a suggestion for you GGG, because that drawback, even after your "buff", it's still too much heavy combined with mob's res + a "more" gem lost

I don't like your soultion, but your analysis of the problem is spot-on!

LMP already has a *huge* drawback in that you lose a gem slot that could be used to boost your damage instead. The extra drawback of less damage makes it really unappealing for many projectile skills. Some projectile skills (LA, KB) get a huge damage boost to each enemy by having multiple projectiles, but for most skills the drawback is massive.

It would need a better solution that just reducing cast speed though. That would be a pretty big buff to LA and KB, which is the last thing we need.

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dudiobugtron wrote:

I don't like your soultion, but your analysis of the problem is spot-on!

LMP already has a *huge* drawback in that you lose a gem slot that could be used to boost your damage instead. The extra drawback of less damage makes it really unappealing for many projectile skills. Some projectile skills (LA, KB) get a huge damage boost to each enemy by having multiple projectiles, but for most skills the drawback is massive.

It would need a better solution that just reducing cast speed though. That would be a pretty big buff to LA and KB, which is the last thing we need.

Maybe they can reduce la and kb, i don't know :) Some spells moreover are hitted harder than others. Let's think to Ice spear....

1) it's elemental (=monster's defence)
2) it's projectile (= + GMP -controlled destruction)
3) afaik, has not received a buff like others

:(

Now i am very happy with my Arc that, even at only 18k dps, is a killer machine, and with my spark, both in a 5 link. But, for making decent my arctic breath (i am playing a "generalist" mage non specialized in any specifical element), i have been forced to wear my Tabula :/

Most projectile spells were nerfed very hard when they got rid of spell projectile shotgunning.

Arctic breath, fireball, ice spear, freezing pulse are now all relegated to being utility skills. They'd need a decent buff before becoming desirable main skills again.

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dudiobugtron wrote:

Most projectile spells were nerfed very hard when they got rid of spell projectile shotgunning.

Arctic breath, fireball, ice spear, freezing pulse are now all relegated to being utility skills. They'd need a decent buff before becoming desirable main skills again.

I agree :/ Maybe GGG could simply, seeing that this games presents you waves of countless mobs (=area damage NEEDED), remove the lmp/gmp gem and make the elemental projectile spells, like those well remembered by you, all 5-projectiles ones by default (and with no base-damage nerf at all to "compensate" this) :/

I strongly disagree with the OP. If anything, I'd be inclined to make the penalties on LMP and GMP even harsher.

It is a strawman argument and a logical fallacy to compare LMP Fireball to Spark and say "because these aren't balanced, buff LMP." That balance can be adjusted by nerfing Spark and/or buffing Fireball.

However, there are one comparison you can't fix by buffing or nerfing active skill gems: LMP Fireball versus single-projectile Fireball. Think about how big a penalty LMP and GMP would need before you'd consider not running them, then that's about the right penalty.

I'm not taking about making Projectile skills (caster or not) worse, because if LMP AND GMP were to get harsher penalties, GGG could compensate by increasing the base, single-target damage of those skills such that the multi-projectile damage remains about the the same but single-target skills become better.

(I feel asleep in the process of composing this post, and I'm submitting it right after waking up.)

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

It is a strawman argument and a logical fallacy to compare LMP Fireball to Spark and say "because these aren't balanced, buff LMP." That balance can be adjusted by nerfing Spark and/or buffing Fireball.

+1


EDIT: BTW, GMP and LMP are by no means necessary for all projectile spells. I see they are necessary for things like Ice Shot, but I ran both Incinerate and Ball Lightning without GMP/LMP and both worked great.

my freezing pulser would like to have a word or two with anyone saying that FP sucks :) it is perfectly fine (no, it is not chaos meta stuff - just plain old Taryn's FP setup)

same with ball lightning - most players have no idea on how to build and scale BL so they do lots of weird ineffective stuff (like adding LMP.. or ignoring AOE etc). it is one of the BEST spells in the game.

as for the LMP/GMP - now that most gems is 'more' these two should have significantly higher 'less' penalties

note: Adding items with FREE fork/chain (quills, rotch) was a HUGE mistake

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Char1983 wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

It is a strawman argument and a logical fallacy to compare LMP Fireball to Spark and say "because these aren't balanced, buff LMP." That balance can be adjusted by nerfing Spark and/or buffing Fireball.

+1


EDIT: BTW, GMP and LMP are by no means necessary for all projectile spells. I see they are necessary for things like Ice Shot, but I ran both Incinerate and Ball Lightning without GMP/LMP and both worked great.

BL is an aoe projectile designed to not have to use LMP\GMP. As for incinerate without lmp\GMP that clear speed was likely ass.

I was wondering when your dislike for every aspect of this game would show up again.

-1. For reasons like Scrotie pointed out.