Why are legacy items here and why the game isn't unbalanced because of that

tinko said it well. +1

Primary I am playing standard league and I don't really care about legacy items. I want to play the game as It was was meant to be. No need to build character around unbalanced or broken items.

On the other hand It's nice to have some special stuff to test game mechanics just for fun. :) But personally I will never ever buy "unwanted" item for such ridiculous prices.

And yes, legacy items should not be allowed in PVP. I would also appreciate some legacy mark on items.

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HarukaTeno wrote:

DROP. He mean DROP. See the difference?

Saying they don't drop and they're not available is a world difference.

Almost nobody who uses legacy items had them as a drop, so stop with the bullshit.

They are available.

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tinko92 wrote:

GGG made a mistake in the beginning

That's the cornerstone of this problem. Plain and simple

Which everyone agrees with.

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tinko92 wrote:

Others having legacy items doesn't affect your gamplay in PvM at all
Others having legacy items to farm faster (a miniscule amount) is actually balanced

Bitch, please :D

Legacy-item-equip gets 100EX in 5 hours (just an example)
Non-legacy-equip gets 100EX in 30 hours.

Yeah... Doesn't affect.
Keeps me wonder, are people really that shortsighted or just trying to deceive other?

What?

How is someone with ~60 DPS more on his weapon farm that much currency?
Or even worse, ~80 ES more on their chest.
If that's the deal, I'd probably had ~15000 exalts in the time I was using both Kaoms and ST.
You've just sad a total nonsense.

Yes, it doesn't effect your gameplay, I've described why in my OP in the end, check it out.

You're deceiving others with your ridiculous numbers.

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tinko92 wrote:

Others having legacy items to farm faster (a miniscule amount) is actually balanced, sure, they'll have more currency/items (probably, on average), but they will also create an inflation, lowering the value of them, and that's the balance.


An issue that we have, is the perception of balance and the envy.

P.S. While it's true that having more money in the economy creates inflation, a select few having extreme wealth (via unbalanced legacy items) does not create inflation. Inflation is when everyone's money is worth less because there is so much of it, but when the money is concentrated in a select few individuals (not the economy as a whole) it creates an imbalance. Those few who have the OP legacy items have an distinct advantage over those who do not have legacy items anad since the buying power is concentrated in their hands they gain buying power while the REST of the players LOSE buying power, and inflation does not occur.

Where's your balance now?


P.P.S. - I don't play standard, never will, am not jealous. I just disprove of any player having an unfair advantage over another simply based on when they started playing

So, in what certain way do legacy owners have a bigger buying power and the rest have a lower one? At least to create the distinct advantage.

Their farming speed is faster by a miniscule amount, un-noticeable.

He can gain a lot of currency for selling the item, but that's not the point, so can a player with a rare mirrorable item. (which is by the way, several times more money)

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tinko92 wrote:

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ozram wrote:

Spoiler

And those people who haven't been around right before introduction of legacy, or just didn't have the currency to make huge profits and become even richer than they actually should?
Those people don't invest a lot of time to play POE?

Those are not the people GGG wants?
You know. People can invest a lot of money into POE without having a Supporter Badge.

To me: It doesn't take much skill to luckily be around at the right moment in time.

Claiming that PVM balance is not as important, or someone just earning 10-30x of item values for no reason whatsoever is negligible does not make much sense.

In my opinion: Economy and PVM is a vital part of the game. Therefore it certainly is not negligible if a small group of people gets huge advantages over more casual players: Or even worse: Very invested players.. who were possibly not around at the point in time where apparently some really wierd s*** went on.

The right decision would have been: Remove "legacy" for everyone. Create a level playing field, especially for the economic or PVM side of the game. That creates trust, not fear.

That argument to me, is invalid. Personally I don't see why people would be afraid of a level playing field. Unless: Oh yeah wait. They cannot make huge, incredibly advantageous and cheesy profits for themselves.

I doubt that the majority of the playerbase would actually be against everyone having access only to affordable (due to economywise balanced) 500hp kaoms, for example. Since I doubt that any of that large majority not possessing the really expensive legacy stuff, would actually care... if others who happen to be privileged, legacy-wise.. were about to lose value... but in turn would at least make it fair for everyone.

Geeze, what does Kaom's cost now? 160ex? 180ex? Playing games should be about fun, and skill. Not about luck.. or cheesy changes. Some people have a RL life, or a job... you know. Even very invested players, who were just not around before those changes... will have such a hard time to ever get hold of even one of the more valuable legacy items. And will therefore always be at a severe disadvantage.

How does that make any sense at all?

I really wonder how that decision was made.

What legacy is next? What comes next, after the IIQ change? What a pleasant way to play: Never knowing if the next month of absence from the game might actually cause a player to have a huge disadvantage due to some phoney changes and imbalance.

It might actually lead to casuals/mature players get annoyed and leave, or at least get disappointed with the game: Seeing that a level playing field in many important aspects of the game, is seemingly not envisioned by the devs.

Your worked so hard to create a very healthy mechanic and economy. And then you throw all of that over board with some wierd 2-class society/items?

You can't tell me that this was the best possible solution for problems with those items, or the way to treat future nerfs, mechanics or item-changes.

Those who didn't had the currency to make profit were unlucky, everyone had the same chance, someone used it, someone didn't.
Are we in kinder-garden?

Those people may have invested time in PoE, and yet they haven't lost anything they had/payed for, which is the point.
And since you're going for the profit card, that happens every day, through flipping.

What would you say if someone buys a BoR for 7 ex and then resells for 12? Unfair to others? Oh no.

I never mentioned the supporter title on the forum, check again.

It doesn't take skill, it takes preparations, if you're prepared, you won't fall short.
If you're not, it's about luck.

Where have I claimed that PvM balance isn't important?
Earning something for no reason is the part of economy, again, are we in kinder-garden?

No, that doesn't create trust, I've said why, and I'll say again.
People wouldn't invest a bunch of currency into something, in fear it gets nerfed, and that takes away the trust in GGG.

GGG would lose player base, mostly the most dedicated ones.

You should read my post again.

You're in a completely subjective point of view.
People haven't bought the legacy items back in the time for profit (excluding flippers, of course).
Those who bought them just before the nerf did it for profit, and why wouldn't they?

How would it be fair to everyone if one part of player base loses something, and others gain absolutely nothing?

Again the casual play not being able to hold on the top stuff.
How is someone holding a legacy Soul Taker ruining your fun in slaying monsters? Since you've mentioned the fun part.
And again with the timing part...

I won't talk about the future, there's no point.

(casual/mature players, just laugh)
Why would casuals leave? Because they don't have the same stuff as a person who invests 2+ times more time in the game then they do?

I would say this is the best way they've done it, player base kept, trust kept, only thing that's causing uproar are casuals who can't have things people who invest much more time them they do.
Or, people who seek balance, that would harm a part of player base while not benefiting anyone.
Economy is fine with the legacy items.

Kinder-Garden? Look at your arguments. They make no sense whatsoever. Absolutely Subjective, no objective logic at all.

Economic profit results from trading and understanding the market. Within a closed environment. Cheesy game-changes and weird 2-class legacy stuff should not have an influence on how each player performs.. whatsoever.

So lets put it that way: Someone invested time to get 25ex for an old kaoms.
Now someone plays hardcore.. and soon will have to invest 10x more playtime to get hold of the same item, or build possibilities... no matter what the advantage is. Your argument is invalid. Newschool hardcore players might actually have to play 10x more than old legacy owners... and still not get the same advantage.

Do you understand that problem?

How does that to have anything to with trading or skill at all?
It's purely a game-change and terrible implementation.

You act as if it is only a problem for casuals. The problem is way bigger than that.. since the extent is so huge that it taints the fun of other diligent, and time-investing players. Don't act as if only owners of legacy items invest a lot of time and money into this game.

The only difference is, they played during 1-2 months when changes happened, outside of the game itself... and were lucky.

It's as simple as that. So you go on, defend your "commendable" Legacy achievements as much as you want: It doesn't change anything about the fact that it is about huge advantages achieved outside of the regular game itself. Merely due to suboptimal mechanics changes.

You can concentrate on the Hardcore "Legacy-Owner" Playerbase all you want. And pretend they merited their richess... even though they didn't really do much for it, from a gaming and skill POV. What do you think if new players come and they have to realize (As if the game wasn't hard enough for startes): "Well buddy. You're out of luck. But basically you're never gonna get hold of that kind of legacy unique. Because you didn't happen to play on Month XYZ of Year 123." Other than that: Have fun playing 1-2 viable endgame builds for a beginner.

"Earning something for no reason is the part of economy, again, are we in kinder-garden?"

That statement. Lol. So basically everyone can become a professional broker? Without knowledge about the market whatsoever? Since you clearly state: That earning something for no reason is part of economy. No my friend. It's actually skill and knowledge of the market. That's where kindergarden-economy and more serious stuff has it's difference. Capice?

That's exactly where the problem is: These advantages were not achieved through the game, or it's economy. They were achieved through some phoney changes. Nothing more. Nothing less. And everyone else is "out of luck". No matter how much they play. As long as the "hardcore legacy owners" are satisfied.

Well then: We will see over time how much of the playerbase will make out when they dwindle down over time. Since the large majority of people will be frustrated and dissatisfied.

"How would it be fair to everyone if one part of player base loses something, and others gain absolutely nothing?"

Ehm.. Yes. Correct. That's the point of fairness. Not having advantage over others. If I work at a job and am unfairly forced to work from 6 AM - to 10 PM every day, while every other employee only has to work from 9 AM - to 4PM... I am at some point going to complain, right?

Even if it means that others might have to work longer too. It will be fair in the end, and better for everyone. Especially from a moral and "feeling" POV.

But whatever.. You go on.. being all tense and defending your valuable legacy items and calling any other POV "kindergarden" while losing focus on the most elemental context, causes and facts.

Might as well step back and take it easy.. actually listen to... and accept other opinions.
Instead of going all "Kindergarden" ;)

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tinko92 wrote:

So, in what certain way do legacy owners have a bigger buying power and the rest have a lower one? At least to create the distinct advantage.

Their farming speed is faster by a miniscule amount, un-noticeable.

He can gain a lot of currency for selling the item, but that's not the point, so can a player with a rare mirrorable item. (which is by the way, several times more money)

the difference is that everyone can get a rare mirrorable item from any mob they kill. legacy items are limited supply, will never drop again, and can give considerable advantage over non-legacy items.

I'd love to see GGG convert all legacy to non-legacy, it would be hilarious to watch


seeing people argue over wealth in standard league is like watching kids fighting over a toy in a sandbox. it means nothing because the entire league is meaningless due to the 4 month leagues.

Repeating the same arguments in every fucking thread making a appearance about the same exact issue is really annoying. It is as bad as that nasty SFL flood we had some time ago. Despite any position anyone takes, it makes discussing the topic at hand a marathon.

I will leave this thread with no true response as I stated my stance on this matter in 2 new threads about the same issue already. People should be forced to google before being allowed to make a new thread.

I'be been playing since closed beta, but I don't have any legacy items.

I don't think it matters at all, it's cool for there to be some legacy items around.
It doesn't impact on your experience of the game if you don't have those items, and there are always going to be super rich people and people with better gear than you, so never mind. Just play and enjoy the game, who cares if someone has better items than you.
Stop taking everything about the game so seriously and just have fun with it.

That's my opinion anyway.

Peace

"The only difference is, they played during 1-2 months when changes happened, outside of the game itself... and were lucky."

That is absolutely right, that's how things work in economy.
If you weren't there in that time, too bad.

Should GGG announce 2 years earlier so everyone can do that?
And even then, there would be people who would claim the same as you do.

Everything revolves around time in this kind of game, realize that.

BoR was once going for 1-3 Ex, I started playing when it was already going for 10 ex, that's not fair!


GGG decided those items needed a change, they've made their decision and did what they thought is the best.


And I'll have to remind you the thing what's going on for a long time, you don't need a legacy item to be viable, you don't need mirrored/mirrorable items to be viable.

Since it was going on back then when those items could become legacy, yes, it was a "broker" situation, where some people profited, why not?
So yeah, with that professional broken statement you've just proved my point.

Phoney changes? How's that?

Really can't understand the relevance of the working time hours with legacy items.
Horrible example.

Re-read my OP, I see you want to see legacy items nerfed, since buffing non-legacy isn't viable by GGG.


You sir, are in some kind of argue with time itself.


EDIT:
Why have I brought up kinder-garden?

You're acting like this:
After the afternoon nap, children are playing outside, in the kinder-garden yard.
It's time for some bicycling, but there are only 10 bicycles on 17 children.
Time is short, parents are coming soon for their children.
You haven't made it to use the bicycle, you were too far in the yard playing in the sand.
Hence why you've came when all the bicycles were taken, other children were cycling for 5-10 minutes, parents were started to coming, including yours, you went home without having a chance to ride a bicycle because you weren't there in the right time.

There.

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demivion wrote:

the difference is that everyone can get a rare mirrorable item from any mob they kill. legacy items are limited supply, will never drop again, and can give considerable advantage over non-legacy items.

I'd love to see GGG convert all legacy to non-legacy, it would be hilarious to watch


seeing people argue over wealth in standard league is like watching kids fighting over a toy in a sandbox. it means nothing because the entire league is meaningless due to the 4 month leagues.

Since we're into science fiction, let me know when a mirrorable item drops.

I know you'd like to see that, that's what's going on here.

If the league is meaningless, it wouldn't have come to this.