Loot question

For what exactly?

Picking up group loot?

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Udja wrote:

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iamstryker wrote:

FFA helps you get closer to people I think because you are able to see how trustworthy they are pretty fast.

I really do not understand all of the cries people have about FFA being bad. Every person in the world is not out to steal your loot.. eventually you will find the good people which you can party with if they are on.

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First off, I am not playing PoE to "get closer to people." There are better ways to do that than playing a video game, and it's simply not why I'm here.

Dont party then simple.

There is a difference between not needing to make close friends in video games and wanting to enjoy coop.

Not partying is not a solution to this issue.

I almost fell out of my chair at work when I read this:

"There is a difference between not needing to make close friends in video games..."

Like you can make "close friends" in a video game with people you've NEVER met ROFLMMFAO!!! Go outside in the real world and live life a bit...

This was exactly my point (I didn't write the first quote by the way). It just feels like the FFA supporters are talking about how we need to only play with the nicest people, thats all well and good for you but I don't need to try to meet the nicest people in a video game. You all could be nice serial killers for all I know. I just want to coop thats it.

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It just feels like the FFA supporters are talking about how we need to only play with the nicest people,

No one is implying this. Anyone who supports FFA knows that people are jerks first and greedy selfish bastards second. It's the only reason there's even any contention over the FFA system. If men were angels, we'd have our FFA loot and eat it too.


I want a fair loot system. I'm not a ninja. But I don't want an unfair loot system thrust upon me, which is what I've only seen thus far from people who don't support FFA. I'd rather have an imperfect system I can control vs a system which is so intrusive that it forces me to never group again.

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anubite wrote:

Firstly, if you add options to the loot system, nobody is going to run FFA loot in a public group. Don't even call it an option - it will be a social stigma to be running a public group with FFA loot, so nobody will use it anymore. Don't act like you're giving us a "choice".

This seems to be your biggest problem with an instanced option just like some other players have stated. I don't really know how you can make that claim. If people find FFA fun now then they will find it fun with other options as well. You give reasons like "FFA makes the gameplay faster for us", well if players feel this way then you would surely want to use it regardless of an instanced option. Theres already a stigma on FFA loot, hence why people are complaining and only playing singleplayer, I feel like everyone should be enjoying coop.

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anubite wrote:

Secondly, instanced loot is not a solution to the loot problem.

Its a solution for plenty of people (variations of instance anyway). I have no idea what you are talking about.

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anubite wrote:

I, like you, want a loot system that is fair. But, instanced loot is the very definition of unfair. It arbitrarily assigns loot to me and you. I may need something that drops for you, but I never see it, ever. It basically means I get less loot for grouping. It basically means I am denied loot for no reason other than to give you the illusion of fairness, because there is no fair distribution of loot - everything is arbitrarily assigned by the computer without any heuristic and that's that.

I completely disagree. In single player loot is randomly given to you. Its perfectly fair that you find uniques in your single player game and for me to find none in my single player game, because its randomly given to us. Why is this system all of the sudden unfair in a coop game? I am interested in what drops for me, I don't care what drops for you, its your choice to leave YOUR items on the ground or to try to let the coop partner have it.

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anubite wrote:

I also think that to design a computer system with the capability of fairly distributing loot is at least difficult and time-consuming, if not impossible. Thus, the only fair loot system is FFA, where reasonable people can reasonbly discuss and determine who gets what. That is what humans do best, is that kind of thinking. Computers can't think on those terms well.

FFA is only fair if you have made your own set of arbitrary rules for your teammates to follow. Instanced is perfectly fair IMO. I don't know how having to reasonably discuss who gets what is faster than clicking on an item to make it available to all.

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anubite wrote:

What most players want is a system which prevents ninja-looting, but no such system exists, even in hyper-casual games like WOW, ninja looting is still rampant. The only system that stops ninja looting stops looting fullstop, which is instanced loot.

No idea what you are saying here. Instanced looting stops looting? ok.....


I believe instanced type systems do those things just fine. But regardless of how different people feel, looting options is a reasonable solution so people can play what they want. Grouping with people you trust is not a solution to the problem of wanting to play public games. I would love to invite strangers into my map runs but that's a very unappealing option in this loot system. I would be far more comfortable with it in a different system. Forced pvp is never the answer.

I've explained my points thoroughly, I don't know how to explain it any better.

What you're saying is complete fallacy. When I join a group +50% more loot drops as a result. I don't get to see that 50% more loot in an instanced setting, which defeats the entire purpose of grouping up. Instead of 150% of normal loot dropping, I see 75% of loot dropping and never see the other 75%. This is only done so that nobody can ninja anything, because the other party doesn't see the other half of the loot. When people don't see the other loot they think it's fair, because the other guy can't take "their" stuff.

But at the same time, stuff that they see is something you never see, so if they walk past an item you might like, you never get it. In effect, you are getting less loot just to satisfy your own imperfect perception of fairness.

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If people find FFA fun now then they will find it fun with other options as well.

It has nothing to do with 'fun'. People pick looting systems that are fair. If I make a public group and don't set the loot to instanced, suddenly, I'm hosting a group with an "unfair" loot system and I'm labeled a ninja by the community and suddenly, nobody wants to join my group.

Go play any MMO in the history of MMOs to have an "optional" FFA loot mechanic. Guess what? Nobody lets a group leader keep the loot setting at that, because they don't trust that guy they're afraid of ninja-ing. The other loot systems are perceived to be more fair, even if they aren't. And because of social pressure, I have to comply with it.

The purpose of grouping up for me has never been to get more loot its just to enjoy coop.

I think that certain variations of an instanced system would elimate some of the issues that you are raising. Like simply having a longer timer for example. If you want an item bad enough then standing an extra few seconds to wait for it shouldn't kill you (My personal opinion).

The timer wouldn't need to be much longer to stop a lot of the issues people have with the current system. As long as I feel like I can make it to my stuff first then I would probably be happy. I understand why people like FFA but I don't think the reasons are good enough to require a pvp mechanic.

FFA loot needs to change because:

1) It's only (mostly) +50% quantity per player, not 100%, so the more players, and the less loot effectively goes to you. That's assuming everyone picks their stuff before timer runs out.

2) I can't see shit in large groups because all I see is item names all over the screen. Between that and minions and spell effects, I have no idea what's going on, so I just pay attention to loot droping with my name on it and click randomly on mobs. No I'm not gonna press Z because if I miss a timer, then the loot dissapears until I stressfully reach the Z key again.

So remove that +quantity per player non-sense, have the game generate loot instanced for each player depending on their own MF. Like D3, the one thing they did right.

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Thalandor wrote:

FFA loot needs to change because:

1) It's only (mostly) +50% quantity per player, not 100%, so the more players, and the less loot effectively goes to you. That's assuming everyone picks their stuff before timer runs out.

2) I can't see shit in large groups because all I see is item names all over the screen. Between that and minions and spell effects, I have no idea what's going on, so I just pay attention to loot droping with my name on it and click randomly on mobs. No I'm not gonna press Z because if I miss a timer, then the loot dissapears until I stressfully reach the Z key again.

So remove that +quantity per player non-sense, have the game generate loot instanced for each player depending on their own MF. Like D3, the one thing they did right.

That is an absolutely horrible idea.