ES, GS, or GTFO
" Critical modifiers are a huge part of the current "meta" in terms of DPS. Most people seem to be running a high amount of critical strike chance and damage in order to reach the DPS values I've been talking about. There are a few exceptions (generally things with high base damage such as mauls or certain spells/skills), but the vast majority of people seem to rely on crits. Right now, it's nearly impossible to incorporate a high amount of critical modifiers if one wants any meaningful amount of defense due to the location of global critical modifiers on the tree. ES modifiers (CI and the like) are conveniently close to large, powerful groups of these modifiers meaning it's less of a stretch to pick them up. This is also an issue with global elemental modifiers, but less so. They are slightly more spread out and accessible. It's not so much build enabling as it is balancing - the builds are possible to create. They're just not going to pack as strong of a punch as they used to and certainly not going to come close to the DPS values I listed previously. I'm currently running what looks to be a very solid Duelist build (posted on the previous page) up to Merciless to see it in action. I've run a few similar Marauder builds without so much success, and I'm not confident this one will be much better, but this will allow me to provide some more numbers to throw out there. Uniques/Skill Gems are available to any character given they have the proper attribute requirements. I'm mainly concerned about the current state of the tree. Someone PMed me something along the same lines asking for potential builds I've run through. I'll post what I responded with in the spoiler below (due to it being a lengthy response). Note that the second build listed was modified on the previous page to a Duelist variation that I liked a bit better (for reasons listed on said page).
Spoiler
The first is the build I am currently using in Merciless. It was an experiment and one I didn't think would go well; however, I had a Marauder to respec with 82 points, so I decided to give it a go. The DPS readout shows somewhere around 5.5k; However, I'm using the unique Chin Sol Maraketh Bow as well as the Point Blank passive node. That can either bump the DPS much higher or much lower depending on the distance between myself and enemies. It's also based on critical hits, which makes the build spread pretty thin, as a Marauder (due to there being virtually no useful Critical passives for the Marauder to take...). It seems OK in the DPS area if I'm soloing. It's not ludicrous, but it's workable. However, because the build's spread so thin, there's simply not enough life/armor built in. Dying is a very high risk in maps, especially if I am in a group. The other issue is it needs to wear a perfect +20 Onyx Amulet in order to meet attribute requirements. I really dislike having to do this.
The next build is what I will be respeccing that Marauder to in the next passive wipe (likely patch 0.9.13), assuming the tree doesn't change too much. In any case, it should be along the same lines as what you see now. It's basically my old build that I used to run, but I wasn't able to fit as much in. I'm expecting 5-6k DPS on this one (though I have good "legacy" elemental gear which artificially boosts DPS past what a new player would be able to get these days) and plenty of life/armor. It's about what I used to run, and I was somewhat content with it. It still never compared to ES variants, but it was a life build that was able to run maps relatively well, so I was happy. The unfortunate part is, again, DEX requirements - need to wear a DEX Amulet + Light Quiver if I want to wield a Thicket Bow, which is important. An ES variant would be superior due to having access to critical nodes and far more elemental stuff while having to put fewer nodes into defense. I know this because several of the people I run maps with are elemental bow users (with ES) and have 15k+ DPS and almost never die. They've got the same type of gear I have, just ES variations of it. With all the INT/Mana Regen to be had, they've got no mana problems either, even without Blood Magic. I wanted to try a Critical + Elemental Wand user that had a shield. This would be damn near impossible for a Marauder, however. I decided to give Shadow a go. Because it's pretty much impossible to get any considerable life regen on a shadow, I decided to make it an HP + ES + Armor hybrid. I fit in quite a few life nodes (somewhere >100% increased max life, iirc) and a bit of ES nodes while still picking up a lot of critical damage multipliers, elemental damage, and power charges (important for a wand build). The 6 Power Charges provide 300% crit chance which means I didn't need to focus on it in the tree and could spend my passives more on critical multiplier. Using this unique shield, I'd have 75%, the maximum, block chance (provided the base of the shield is not changed before it is put into the game). The shield gives a huge 25% increase to elemental damage as well as fitting the armor/es hybrid I was looking for. The 5% ES replenished on block sounds incredibly strong, even with a minimal amount of ES. The worries I had for this build are Accuracy (it'd probably only have ~60% chance to hit due to low DEX and no accuracy nodes) and minor skill requirements. They're not as drastic as they were for the marauder - 94 STR is enough for the STR gems I planned, but I'd probably need +12 dex from something if I wanted max level gems. Other than these trees, none of them made it past the planning stages due to obvious flaws (huge attribute req gaps, not enough life, not enough damage, no critical, no accuracy, whatever it may be - the bottom half of the tree just isn't friendly unless you want to go melee). Former player moderator, valued poster, and early-adopter responsible for The Blood Dance. GGG has forgotten where they came from. As a result, I no longer support the deceitful, corporate Tencent slave sellouts running this game. Last edited by MonopolyLegend on Sep 25, 2012, 10:58:52 PM
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In regards to your edit about HP/ES Hybrid - I feel it'd certainly be possible, but you'd need to stack quite a bit of life still. I'd miss my life regen too much to play a build like that, but I don't see why it couldn't work. For reference, see the Shadow I listed above - it's got quite a bit of life built into it...enough to easily survive a few chaos-based attacks just as well as any regular life-based character. It also has plenty of DPS tools built in as well. The biggest issues, like I mentioned, would be Accuracy and minor skill reqs. Other than that, just tedious life/mana management which I don't want to deal with (a big reason I love the life/regen/BM builds). With an "Added Accuracy" gem, I think that Shadow could be playable and should reach pretty high amounts of DPS (with good elemental mods on gear + the wand).
Former player moderator, valued poster, and early-adopter responsible for The Blood Dance.
GGG has forgotten where they came from. As a result, I no longer support the deceitful, corporate Tencent slave sellouts running this game. |
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" Would you agree that, in a crit build, a high crit damage multiplier has pretty limited usefulness? That is, if 2/3 of your DPS comes from crit, and 3/4 of your crits cause massive overkill, how much does that DPS figure actually matter? Let a man walk alone -
Let him commit no sin. Let him bear few wishes, Like an elephant in the forest. | |
" In groups, it's generally not overkill (especially for the Rare/Unique mobs). In solo play, of course it's overkill - this is why the 'mediocre' builds (as I keep referring to them as, that's really not an accurate description) work just fine for solo play. When you start to group up with others, monsters become considerably more difficult to deal with. Former player moderator, valued poster, and early-adopter responsible for The Blood Dance.
GGG has forgotten where they came from. As a result, I no longer support the deceitful, corporate Tencent slave sellouts running this game. |
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I am currently running a pure crit mult Witch. Diamond Flasks pretty much make critical strike a horrible stat. Overall, crit mult is significantly better.
Level 44 Witch with 600% crit mult = 3 shotting merciless Brutus with Spark and perma freezing monsters with ice spear. My Keystone Ideas: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/744282
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" I'd agree with this to an extent; for bosses, yes. For regular mobs that you are constantly clearing, it's not as applicable. I mean, you simply cannot run a Diamond Flask at all times...not to my knowledge, anyway. As Zak stated earlier, Criticals are usually overkill for those types of mobs anyway. Another big issue is Power Charges give potentially 300% increased Critical Strike Chance effectively eliminating the need for critical strike modifiers (provided one can actually hold the Power Charges up consistently). EDIT: I'm loving the discussion so far, by the way. If I come across as irritated, you'll have to excuse me. I've been dealing with a medical crisis within my immediate family lately, and this is where I come to relax - lately, I've not been able to do that due to a lack of fun (fun for me, anyway), viable characters to play since the recent patches. I don't mean to snap at anyone or offend you guys, so please take what I say with a grain of salt. Former player moderator, valued poster, and early-adopter responsible for The Blood Dance. GGG has forgotten where they came from. As a result, I no longer support the deceitful, corporate Tencent slave sellouts running this game. Last edited by MonopolyLegend on Sep 25, 2012, 11:06:26 PM
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" Yeah, I use a wand + power siphon most of the time, and I do run into trouble, but I'm carrying around 2 diamond flasks, which is actually enough for me to clear two fairly decently-sized packs very quickly, clear a small pack to bulid up the diamonds again... rinse repeat. It's probably not as fast as straight up spell damage, but crit mult is amazing against resistant rare monsters, bosses, and soon to be PVP. You only need a little crit strike chance for a huge crit mult build; power charges give enough, but the passive tree sucks at giving critical strike chance overall, though the latest 0.9.12 changes make things a little better. My current bulid starts at Witch, gets throatseeker, goes into shadow and then ranger territory for critical multiplier. You can easily pick up +ES, +MANA, and +Cast Speed while doing this, plus a hefty amount of dex/evasion which is nice. Crit mult is very easy to get if you're on the right side of the tree. My Keystone Ideas: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/744282 Last edited by anubite on Sep 25, 2012, 11:09:49 PM
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" Try doing that on a life character. :) Former player moderator, valued poster, and early-adopter responsible for The Blood Dance.
GGG has forgotten where they came from. As a result, I no longer support the deceitful, corporate Tencent slave sellouts running this game. |
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Can't. It's just /slightly/ too in-efficient to do that.
For 1) I need at least 2 diamond flasks For 2) I need at least 2 mana flasks For 3) The Witch start (mana path) forces you to take the long way if you don't want to blow points on -15% energy shield cooldown. So I lose a couple of points going the "long way" toward throatseeker. But mainly, it's the potion issue. There's no way I can fit an appropriate amount of life potions, diamond flasks, and mana potions. My Keystone Ideas: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/744282
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" You see my point in this thread now? It used to be entirely possible to do this, but the new trees have slowly moved away from that. Moving cross-tree doesn't work like it used to, so now the lack of useful, global nodes in the bottom half is showing through. As for the potion issue BM (definitely no longer a possibility) or Clarity can generally solve the mana flask problem. I usually run with 2 life flasks, 1 Granite, and 2 Diamond. Former player moderator, valued poster, and early-adopter responsible for The Blood Dance. GGG has forgotten where they came from. As a result, I no longer support the deceitful, corporate Tencent slave sellouts running this game. Last edited by MonopolyLegend on Sep 25, 2012, 11:19:58 PM
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