Arguments Pro Auction House

I think thread beginner has a big impact on thread growth, so i want to make a thread pro Auction House to make considerations.

first of all, usually lot of people tell: go play d3: i think lot of D3 ppl only play AH because the game is bad, and the AH too is bad.

second consideration: 90% of ppl that we can find on trade channels stay all time in trade to change currency with tree steps (example ex to gcp, gcp to chaos, chaos to ex). isnt this like d3 AH? yes it is but it need ppl must be online and if u want to do it u must stop farming and play, more ppl understand u can get an easy profit and more ppl stop play real game, the future is this one, and this is also thanx to rmt websites that influence our currency ratio (read next considerations about rmt)

ABOUT CURRENCY and real money RMT:
if u usually go in trade channels u know that lot of ppl use a famous rmt site to know currency rates, i really think that this website has a big potential to change rates and influence all the ingame rates. it is BAD because they know first of all us future rates and they know better of us currency request. in a few hours they can trade lot of currency on trade channels to get what they need to sell for real money, and after this they change rates on theyr website to get a bigger profit.

what ggg can do?
they can make a sistem so no-one can change global rates so fast and they will change slowly

i think best sistem can be one Auction House only for currency, so you can easy understand rates and trade faster, whitout need to buy from rmt sites to save time and give no chance to rmt sites to influence us
it will not solve rmt problem, but it will give them less profit and us a better trade.

i also would love it because im tired of trade where i must always get bad offers because people are misinformed or just trying to rob me, i want to play the game and not to waste my time in trade if i can.

##################################################
Auction House for items


Probably, but im not sure, with an Auction House unlimited sistem lot of cheap items will value near to zero, it is good? i dunno! probably a new player can take advantage and start with a better gaming experience and probably i will get less currency, probably lot of people dont want it for these reasons, and probably they are only selfish people.

About mid-gaming items: the chance people will start to buy and sell them is high, and it will be not funny, i think it is the biggest reason that leads people to hate the auction houses. but it is true? i dont think so! right now there are too much players doing low ball offers to try get a good item and to sell it with a big profit, so the problem is still present and perhaps nothing will change

end game items: they still have big prices and we already have a system to contain the price: miror of kalandra (thanx ggg)

final considerations:
- for lot of items, we already have the same situations of d3 auction house, the only difference is that we dont know it
- lot of people sell only with excessively high prices
- lot of people create false auctions with fake offers made by friends, or false auctions without an end because they dont want to sell for a right price, they only want free bump in hopes of finding a chicken (really bad words, traslator doesn help me but i hope u understand it)
- a Auction House sistem ruin the game if it is made by incompetent people, ggg are good people, they can do better!

WHAT I THINK WE NEED
we need fast auctions, few days maximum duration or a little more for better items
we need a limited auction, so if people want to use it to sell must lower the prices and a single player cant buy and sell for higher price too much items in the same time
we need a tax for trading in auction house, so people cant remove the item how much times they want to get the highest offer in a without-end auction

what i would like to propose:
Auction House limited only to a few items (for example max 4 items) and with a short maximum duration
Auction House fee proportional to the price chosen and paid in advance, so we tend to sell faster and at honest/low price common items

and since i dont want to penalize the trade forums i would like to propose:
a mail system with which two players can send objects without having to be both connected at the same time, in this sistem i think the best way is that:
- first player set the price and put item in mail sistem
- second player must pay the price to get the item
- first player get the currency back in mail sistem


i hope this will be helpful, and i really hope that you guys tell your opinion, but give your reasons too and not only "i want it" or "i dont want it", because it is not a poll and ggg are not stupid, i really dont think they care of people spamming :)

I'm "pro-auction house" but then again I don't give a rat's ass about "the economy" with it's scammers, con artists, botters, RMT-traders, and the like. So if "the economy" took a huge dive into the turd-bowl I'd applaud.

However, GGG has elected to use shitty trading as a gear check and a barrier to fast advancement. Don't ask me why. That entire thought process seems like the work of a crack smoking monkey to me. Yet it is inarguably true that if safer and more streamlined trading were available then I would've had better gear earlier.

The entire thing hinges on their inability to control the monstrously complex economy they have tried to create so they control it with ... well ... what we have.

Also, don't forget that GGG likes PvP which they call "player tension". So a bit of mandatory PvP probably seems like a positive thing to them. A more refined economy would close the loopholes for this sort of PvP.

I start to think that AH-haters are players that gains towards the current trade system (either in RM or in game-orbs).

I proposed an AH system that solve almost all the problems highlighted by AH-haters.

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/499848

Basic ideas are:
1) NO b/o
2) Hidden bids
3) Small tax to make a bid
4) High tax for the seller if the item is sold.
5) Fixed-time auction. If no one bids in that time, the item is destroyed.
EDIT: 6) Small fixed tax for the seller to put items in auction.

Let's wait for what the developers have planned all along before telling them how to fix the trade system.

"

HellGauss wrote:

I start to think that AH-haters are players that gains towards the current trade system (either in RM or in game-orbs).

I proposed an AH system that solve almost all the problems highlighted by AH-haters.

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/499848

Basic ideas are:
1) NO b/o
2) Hidden bids
3) Small tax to make a bid
4) High tax for the seller if the item is sold.
5) Fixed-time auction. If no one bids in that time, the item is destroyed.
EDIT: 6) Small fixed tax for the seller to put items in auction.

Everyone in the world is all for taxing.

All I need now is a god damn tax.

"

didevol wrote:

"

HellGauss wrote:

I start to think that AH-haters are players that gains towards the current trade system (either in RM or in game-orbs).

I proposed an AH system that solve almost all the problems highlighted by AH-haters.

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/499848

Basic ideas are:
1) NO b/o
2) Hidden bids
3) Small tax to make a bid
4) High tax for the seller if the item is sold.
5) Fixed-time auction. If no one bids in that time, the item is destroyed.
EDIT: 6) Small fixed tax for the seller to put items in auction.

Everyone in the world is all for taxing.

All I need now is a god damn tax.

LOLOL. seriously. Gimme some more EFFIN taxes.

Also this is a horrible idea (not so much the first 2 but the tax part). An auction house cut is put into gold based games because gold itself has no use in games other than as a store of value. If gold is constantly created and never removed you have inflation. Every orb in PoE is self regulated by it's own intrinsic value. You don't need to remove chaos/exalts/etc from the game through trade because they are removed from individuals using them on gear/maps.

My personal opinion, if people want AH so much, make it within guild.
I know guild is not in yet, but once is in, then guild should have AH functionality so that you can auction within your guild members (limiting guild member to 30-40 people).

Like posted in many threads, there is countless sensible reasons why AH is not practical to be implemented in an ARPG loots type games.

it would just be pro more flippers and drive up prices on every item in the game and currency more, no need to play but playing the AH, let the flippers have to talk to people and spam trade allday

AH would just end any chatting like d3 did and make it not social at all

mostly im 100% for no AH because flipping AH allday

"

Slider13 wrote:

LOLOL. seriously. Gimme some more EFFIN taxes.

Also this is a horrible idea (not so much the first 2 but the tax part). An auction house cut is put into gold based games because gold itself has no use in games other than as a store of value. If gold is constantly created and never removed you have inflation. Every orb in PoE is self regulated by it's own intrinsic value. You don't need to remove chaos/exalts/etc from the game through trade because they are removed from individuals using them on gear/maps.

It is not horrible. It is well planned.

The taxes are needed because they avoid the AH to be spammed with low offers, trash items, to prevent richness accumulations, to provide sink for items and to provide a sink for money (like maps for orbs).

In real world taxes are the only thing that gives real value to currency. If gold is introduced in PoE it would have also another usage: buy low-level orbs (this is needed because otherwise nobody would consider gold as currency). I suggest that orb-shard could be removed, and that wisdom, trans, alt and alc and maybe some other orbs to be also buyable in shops in exchange of currency (this provides additional sink for currency). Drop rates should be adjusted to force players to use some of their gold to buy these orbs.

Also i remark that gold as currency for low level orbs is an idea which GGG is taking in consideration.

"

HellGauss wrote:

"

Slider13 wrote:

LOLOL. seriously. Gimme some more EFFIN taxes.

Also this is a horrible idea (not so much the first 2 but the tax part). An auction house cut is put into gold based games because gold itself has no use in games other than as a store of value. If gold is constantly created and never removed you have inflation. Every orb in PoE is self regulated by it's own intrinsic value. You don't need to remove chaos/exalts/etc from the game through trade because they are removed from individuals using them on gear/maps.

It is not horrible. It is well planned.

The taxes are needed because they avoid the AH to be spammed with low offers, trash items, to prevent richness accumulations, to provide sink for items and to provide a sink for money (like maps for orbs).

I'm impressed that you've realized that mass selling of low/mid items would be a problem, and therefore attempted to mitigate it. Therefore, I won't go into why it's so important. (Yet.)

However, I don't think any attempts to mitigate it would be successful. When it comes to low/mid items, the main competition for sales is the in-game vendor. Any form of fire-and-forget trading would be used over vendoring if the seller could consistently get more than vendor, which in this case is a few Alteration shards. If the seller gets a net of 1 Alteration after taxes, you're still going to see mass low-end item spam in any auction house.

The type of taxes you'd need to impose to make your suggestion work would be so outrageous that any type of balance would be impossible. Either you wouldn't tax enough, and AH would be home to automated low-level item spam, or you would tax too much, and players would not really use the AH and just resort to forums for auctions of high-end items — a practice which is currently fully functional, especially when assisted by third-party shops indexers.

Despite your best efforts, your suggestion still fails, plus GGG will never, ever implement an AH regardless.