Reflect mobs on Reflect maps

Methink you just need way more es and GR+VP

or maybe consider 1h + shield for reflect mobs/maps

but you arne´t done yet :)

I had pretty much the same qetions,since i was getting one shotted,or hit for my hald ES with ghost reaver+vaal pact and over 20% Life Leech.It turns out that it works like that:You hit,u leech,u take the reflected damage(mitigated by your DR).Which basically means that if u are on full HP/ES and hit a mob,u ll hit,then leech(and will do nothing since u are full),and then take the reflected damage.Up to this point no matter how much life leech u have is to absolutely no importance,and if u one shot ur self u ll die.Then on ur next hit u ll leech again(propably going to full ES/HP if ur damage/life leech is enough) and reapeat.SO on the first hit(if u are full) and the killing blow u wont leech anything with vaal pact.I would love if it actually worked like that: life leech and reflect prescessed at the same time and u take the remaining reflected damage OR u actually heal ur self if ur life leech is higher than the reflected damage

Btw Enfeeble curse work vs reflect? If before hit i curse Enfeeble will i take less dmg from reflect?

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Poutsos wrote:

SO on the first hit(if u are full) and the killing blow u wont leech anything with vaal pact.

This mechanic is so perverse. If you one-hit the mob you don't leech because it's dead and there is no next blow?

So even with enough leech, you just can't win.

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It seems to me reflect is being calculated based on the Character Sheet per-hit physical damage. Not the tooltip dps figure.

If I really dealt 14k as shown on my tooltip, armor effectiveness would drop down to like 30ish% and the returned damage would be way higher.

Estimates using the per-hit physical damage of around 3k-6k seemed more in-line with observed reflected damage.

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Endurance charges look a hella lot more powerful in this light. Full damage reduction with none of this silly armor effectiveness garbage.

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Myrthr wrote:

Wondering if anyone knows what the numbers behind reflect are.

1. How much of your physical damage does a Physical Reflect mob return? 18%? 20%? (disregard armor)

2. How much of your damage is returned by a Physical Reflect mob on a Physical Reflect map (18% max?) ? (disregard armor)

3. Does being cursed with vulnerability increase reflected physical damage?

4. Do mob modifiers like Increased attack or Increased damage affect reflected damage?

I want to know how much leech is enough (assuming 70% reduction from armor). (12-13%?)

18%
36%
yes but apparently its currently not working, same with shock stacks
no monster and map mods dont effect it, enfeeble doesnt work either,
evasion and block / spell block do work, but the extra projectile evade from ondar's guile doesnt work.

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Myrthr wrote:

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Poutsos wrote:

SO on the first hit(if u are full) and the killing blow u wont leech anything with vaal pact.

This mechanic is so perverse. If you one-hit the mob you don't leech because it's dead and there is no next blow?

So even with enough leech, you just can't win.

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It seems to me reflect is being calculated based on the Character Sheet per-hit physical damage. Not the tooltip dps figure.

If I really dealt 14k as shown on my tooltip, armor effectiveness would drop down to like 30ish% and the returned damage would be way higher.

Estimates using the per-hit physical damage of around 3k-6k seemed more in-line with observed reflected damage.

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Endurance charges look a hella lot more powerful in this light. Full damage reduction with none of this silly armor effectiveness garbage.

1)That is correct,and it is so unfair for physical damage players,cause it forces you to basically not have very high DPS,since armor won't do much if anything,while for elemental users is very easy to have capped resists or more,in order to reduce significcantly the damage u ll take
2)that is correct as well,for the first hit and the killing blow physical damage on hit is what matters,since ur tooltips indicates your damage per seccond,which involves several attacks,so there is leech involved.My physical damage per hit can go as high as 3620 with 879% critical multiplier,meaning i can hit for 31819.8 so the reflect damage would be 5727.5.SO this can be very difficult to deal with.

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Poutsos wrote:

My physical damage per hit can go as high as 3620 with 879% critical multiplier,meaning i can hit for 31819.8 so the reflect damage would be 5727.5.SO this can be very difficult to deal with.

Wth. How is that survivable?? My physical damage was 4k-6k per hit with no crit, but even that little bit of reflected damage was too much. There is no way you're leeching back that much damage. 5k reflected!? You touch 2 mobs and you're dead.

I realized just because I can use MeleePhys and MeleePhysOnFullLife at the same time doesn't mean I should.

Also starting to think ImmortalCall is the only solution. I'll struggle with this problem a bit longer yet before I give in.

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In this regard, elemental damage dealers seem to have it easy. Resists are always high, and even with elemental weakness mods the overall damage reduction is still higher compared to actual armor effectiveness.

(Unless the elemental resistance numbers are a lie too. Lies lies lies!! *panic*)

I am a dual dagger ci crit shadow with Vaal Pact. Have 10% leech from Blood Rage.
Usually i run maps with 40% phys reduction and 35K tooltip dps on dual strike+melee splash.
Damage is pure physical+hatred.
With crit weakness curse my damage is almost doubled.
It took some time before i found a way to deal with reflect.
I switch my Melee damage to multistrike to make my attacks fast but less damaging (they still hit hard enough to ignore monsters armor almost completely)
Here is a a reflect advice part from my build guide

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Fantoster wrote:

Btw Enfeeble curse work vs reflect? If before hit i curse Enfeeble will i take less dmg from reflect?

1500 ES is way too low. I would never do maps with less than 2500 hp or es.