Reflect mobs on Reflect maps

Wondering if anyone knows what the numbers behind reflect are.

1. How much of your physical damage does a Physical Reflect mob return? 18%? 20%? (disregard armor)

2. How much of your damage is returned by a Physical Reflect mob on a Physical Reflect map (18% max?) ? (disregard armor)

3. Does being cursed with vulnerability increase reflected physical damage?

4. Do mob modifiers like Increased attack or Increased damage affect reflected damage?

I want to know how much leech is enough (assuming 70% reduction from armor). (12-13%?)



Toupy - Lv93 Facebreaker Cyclone Duelist
Last edited by Myrthr on Jun 28, 2013, 12:09:48 AM
1) 18%

2)18%+18%

3)Yes

4)Yes

Unless you have vaal pact, life leech won't help you that much, seeing as most people's damage heavily outweighs their hp pools. You always risk getting oneshotted, especially with a high crit multiplier.
IGN: FreHu (Ambush)
Was trying out a Vaal Pact build and something is not quite right.

I'm using a Lv19 Life Leech gem (8.5% leech) with Lv17 Blood Rage (6% leech). I do mostly physical damage. In theory, I should have 14.5% life leech which is not capped due to VP.

On a physical reflect map, I tried hitting a physical reflect mob. In theory it should reflect 36% of my damage. Say my armor reduces physical damage by about 70%. I should be taking about 0.3*36 = 10.8% of the damage I deal.

Since my life leech (14.5%) is higher than the reflected damage (10.8%), I should be ok. In reality it was not even close to working like that; that pack hurt like hell when I cycloned in. I barely touched the first mob before I had to back off and cast Enduring Cry to even attempt it.

Someone enlighten me please. What the hell went wrong?

---
Actually, someone mentioned before that on the killing blow, you take the full amount of reflected damage but you only leech what is left of the mob's life (i.e., not the full amount).

Can anyone verify this? If true this needs to be fixed.

And that can't be the only reason my previous calculations were wrong. Normal hits on the reflect boss still hurt even though he didn't die immediately. In theory I should have leeched back all my damage.
Toupy - Lv93 Facebreaker Cyclone Duelist
Last edited by Myrthr on Jul 9, 2013, 2:53:40 PM
"
Myrthr wrote:
Was trying out a Vaal Pact build and something is not quite right.

I'm using a Lv19 Life Leech gem (8.5% leech) with Lv17 Blood Rage (6% leech). I do mostly physical damage. In theory, I should have 14.5% life leech which is not capped due to VP.

On a physical reflect map, I tried hitting a physical reflect mob. In theory it should reflect 36% of my damage. Say my armor reduces physical damage by about 70%. I should be taking about 0.3*36 = 10.8% of the damage I deal.

Since my life leech (14.5%) is higher than the reflected damage (10.8%), I should be ok. In reality it was not even close to working like that; that pack hurt like hell when I cycloned in. I barely touched the first mob before I had to back off and cast Enduring Cry to even attempt it.

Someone enlighten me please. What the hell went wrong?


Are you sure the physical damage was reduced by 70%? Not only that but as far as I know the life leech is applied before the damage is reflected. So you would gain your, say 100 hp from life leech then take the 80 damage. And so if you're dealing enough damage with low enough hp that you're getting close to dying before you hit a second time to heal up, that first hit would hurt like hell. Also if you were to get hit at all in between your hits you might very well die.

Edit to your edit: I just read somewhere that no, that is not the case. Your life leech is based off the damage you do, not the amount of life the enemy has. I don't have time right now or I would find a link for you.
Last edited by Merowyn on Jul 9, 2013, 2:59:34 PM
"
Myrthr wrote:
Was trying out a Vaal Pact build and something is not quite right.

I'm using a Lv19 Life Leech gem (8.5% leech) with Lv17 Blood Rage (6% leech). I do mostly physical damage. In theory, I should have 14.5% life leech which is not capped due to VP.

On a physical reflect map, I tried hitting a physical reflect mob. In theory it should reflect 36% of my damage. Say my armor reduces physical damage by about 70%. I should be taking about 0.3*36 = 10.8% of the damage I deal.

Since my life leech (14.5%) is higher than the reflected damage (10.8%), I should be ok. In reality it was not even close to working like that; that pack hurt like hell when I cycloned in. I barely touched the first mob before I had to back off and cast Enduring Cry to even attempt it.

Someone enlighten me please. What the hell went wrong?

---
Actually, someone mentioned before that on the killing blow, you take the full amount of reflected damage but you only leech what is left of the mob's life (i.e., not the full amount).

Can anyone verify this? If true this needs to be fixed.

And that can't be the only reason my previous calculations were wrong. Normal hits on the reflect boss still hurt even though he didn't die immediately. In theory I should have leeched back all my damage.


According to a GGG post (I can't be bothered to find it now, sorry), leech is not affected by remaining health. Also, armor gets weaker the more damage you take, so just because your tooltip says 70% defense doesn't mean it will reduce that much.
"
olop4444 wrote:
so just because your tooltip says 70% defense doesn't mean it will reduce that much.


So the stat display is lying to me. =/

Anyone know what the real damage reduction is? or how much leech you need for 10k dps? 20k dps? 30k dps?
Toupy - Lv93 Facebreaker Cyclone Duelist
-> sticky in Beta General Discussion, Consolidated Guides, Game Mechanics and Information
-> [Mechanics] Detailed Game Mechanics

OR

-> google
-> path of exile wiki
-> armor
What can never be lent or earned?
Somewhat, that devours everyone and everything:
A tree that rush. A bird that sings. It eat bones and smite the hardest stones.
Masticate every sword. Shatters every shrine. It defeat mighty kings and carry mountains on lightly wings.
What am i?
Last edited by Spysong192 on Jul 9, 2013, 3:16:13 PM
"
Spysong192 wrote:
-> sticky in Beta General Discussion, Consolidated Guides, Game Mechanics and Information
-> [Mechanics] Detailed Game Mechanics

OR

-> google
-> path of exile wiki
-> armor


I've seen that before. It makes no sense when applied to reflect.

"An easy to remember rule of thumb is that to achieve 50% damage reduction, you will need an armour rating equal to twelve times that of the damage being dealt. For example, to achieve 50% damage reduction against a 100 damage hit, you'll need 1200 armour."

The amount of damage reflected depends on how much damage reduction my armor provides. However, the amount of damage reduction my armor provides also depends on the amount of damage I take. How do you resolve the seemingly circular reference?

---
It would also appear that at high dps, armor is next to negligible. In which case I should have insta-killed myself. Which I didn't. Something is still not quite right.

FYI I have 1500ES (working on it...), 14k dps cyclone, 17k armor, do not crit.
Toupy - Lv93 Facebreaker Cyclone Duelist
Last edited by Myrthr on Jul 9, 2013, 3:47:26 PM
I would think that for example

You hit for 2000
Your armor 5000

18%(reflext) of 2000 = 360 damage

5000 / ( 5000 + (12 * 360)) = 0,54~

54% damage reduction of 360 damage = you´ll take 194,4 for that 2k hit you´ve done



-correct me if i´m wrong
What can never be lent or earned?
Somewhat, that devours everyone and everything:
A tree that rush. A bird that sings. It eat bones and smite the hardest stones.
Masticate every sword. Shatters every shrine. It defeat mighty kings and carry mountains on lightly wings.
What am i?
Last edited by Spysong192 on Jul 9, 2013, 3:53:59 PM
"
Spysong192 wrote:
I would think that for example

You hit for 2000
Your armor 5000

18%(reflext) of 2000 = 360 damage

5000 / ( 5000 + (12 * 360)) = 0,54~

54% damage reduction of 360 damage = you´ll take 194,4 for that 2k hit you´ve done



-correct me if i´m wrong


Thanks.

On second thought, that kinda makes sense. I think I can abort my CI char now if my own estimates are correct.
Toupy - Lv93 Facebreaker Cyclone Duelist

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