"The Help": Hired or Otherwise

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Skivverus wrote:
Perhaps one would have to pay them in usable gear - which would make for another interesting mechanic. Deck them out, or keep them humble (and therefore, hopefully, less likely to backstab you)?


Where does "decking them out" end, though? But I do think it's a good idea 'cause it would be in synch with the current currency system. And if mercs are introduced later in the game, all players will know enough about the currency system and would understand how to interact with the mercs.

One idea on payment could be an item(s) the merc is "searching" for. The AI in the merc would recognize the instance and know commonly dropped item rates. It would then ask for so many of this or that and you'd have to keep supplying him. There could be a pretty flexible time limit or a preference towards mid-rare drops. Maybe items with specific mods? Penalties for not supplying him could range in extremity. Equipping the merc with items could reset/add time to the "supply clock."

I think mercs should be a burden in PoE. Wraeclast is a very hostile place and nothing should come easy! Trusty sidekicks should have their drawbacks. I think the developers think so too. For instance, the summon has a travel radius, and loot is a modified open drop.
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Skivverus wrote:
The question also arises - if they're mercenaries, how does one pay them? The devs have stated they're aiming to avoid a universal currency.

Perhaps one would have to pay them in usable gear - which would make for another interesting mechanic. Deck them out, or keep them humble (and therefore, hopefully, less likely to backstab you)?


I had an idea as to how one might pay them... A while back Chris posted that the drop chance was 23%, so what if their pay was a reduction in your drop chance? I was thinking that they would increase your drop chance prior to contract negotiations to say 25% (maybe because they are better at searching for items or something) and you would negotiate with them by either giving up your drop chance or your experience per kill.

Lets say that the merc could potentially receive anywhere from 0-5% of your potential drops or that could be offset by a reduction in experience gained. Each drop chance reduction percentage could be worth somewhere around 2.5-5% experience, so a person who values drop chance and the help more than experience can have the 25% drop chance, but in turn would have a 12.5-25% reduction in experience gained, taking them longer to gain levels. Conversely a player could value their experience and the merc's help more, would have a 20% drop chance. Other people would likely have something in between those two extremes.

Contract negotiations could occur at anytime (by hitting a "renegotiate contract" button), as could the nullification of the contract and dismissal of the merc (by hitting a "void contract" button).

I also had thoughts on how one would initially acquire the ability to form contracts with mercs. Maybe there would be a quest to kill a boss or something and the quest giver would lend you the use of a merc at no charge, so that you could see how potentially useful a merc could be (whilst following you around only within the quest instance). People who have no interest in mercs would have no interest in performing the quest, whilst those who do, would.
Some interesting ideas. I think we should stay away from making the merc system overly complicated.

As long as people are given a range of different class mercs that come at a range of different prices, most people will be happy. That price can either be up front in items and currency items or it can be a penalty to drop chance. Either of those would work fine. The point is that the impact of these decisions needs to be made clear to the player up front so that they can make an informed decision and know what they're getting into.
Forum Sheriff
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tpapp157 wrote:
Some interesting ideas. I think we should stay away from making the merc system overly complicated.


I've gotta say that I agree with tpapp in all practicality. While those other ideas sound really neat and could be a really cool addition, with trying to balance all of the game play mechanics and just getting PoE up to close beta, it seems like having a complicated merc system would just be too much.

However, maybe that would be something that could be implemented in a future expansion or something.......
In since 0.8.0
Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/kungfooe
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However, maybe that would be something that could be implemented in a future expansion or something.......


kungfooe, I stated just that in the very first post of this thread...

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Since there is most likely going to be mercenaries or 'mercs' in either the beta or one of the expansions (http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/275), I was doing some thinking as to how to this might work.
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Tertium_Quid wrote:
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However, maybe that would be something that could be implemented in a future expansion or something.......


kungfooe, I stated just that in the very first post of this thread...


Oh yeah......I just noticed that when I looked back.............so I agree with you. Good idea.
In since 0.8.0
Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/kungfooe
hmmm.

an idea i've been toying with.

why not make mercs a standing roster of npcs that level up and collect gear?

a player can have a personal relationship with individual mercs. you build up favour with them over time ( or, if you treat them badly, lose said favour shockingly fast ).

you could put a merc on retainer, and forego others hiring him out from under you, should you so choose.

each merc can have its own build and gear that develop over time. specific mercs would actually be more sought after than others, which would make their services more expensive.

specific mercs would be stronger in certain situations than others; it would be feasible you would have to attempt to hire a merc at some point you had estranged in the past, and would be required to pay through the nose for the service, effectively resetting favour to zero.

alternately, that "effective reset" could be temporary. after all, the merc does hate your guts, and that sort of thing doesn't go away overnight.

passing thoughts! i'm all for stuff that makes the game more immersive. having npcs that react and act like real people, rather than 2d cutouts, is a good step in that direction, imho.

cheers


<3 GGG.

I honestly believe that creating 'personalities' for mercs would be more complicated and (as others have said) more difficult to implement than the ideas I put out. So, I do not see 'merc personalities' ever being implemented, nor can I see how mercs could not be fungible without an inordinate amount of effort on the part of the developers. Furthermore, how would a merc be bought out from under you? Again without merc fungibility, how could they be indispensable without imbalancing the game?
"bought out" is simple. a merc works for an agreed up time period.

why? because a merc is a person, not just an extension of your character. (y'know, "npc")

literally, someone offered the merc more money. when the agreed upon time period elapses, your merc stops working for you, and goes and works for the other guy.

you now need a new merc. maybe if you'd have treated the last one better, he'd have stayed with you?

that sort of thing.

and... fungible?

as for the personalities complaint, a good example of what i'm talking about is the roster system from unreal tournament 2k4.

the only real difference i'd envision is that the merc would be with you for a limited span, as opposed to a permanent henchman.

i guess the definition of mercenary is open to interpretation, now isn't it?

lastly, as for the "indispensable", i can't count the number of times i've heard someone say they can't do anything without their merc on b.net. so there's precedent for someone being completely reliant on a merc to get by.


<3 GGG.

If you do not know what a word is, like fungible , you should look it up...

I know nothing about Unreal Tournament 2k4 and when I googled "Unreal Tournament 2004" and "roster system" I could not find anything specific on how it worked. All I could figure out was that there were large scale battles with numerous players that were fungible.

Was there gold or credits or whatever that could be used to hire them? It does not look like there will be any gold in PoE, only currency items and equipment with subjective value, so how will mercenaries be paid?

Would my idea of reduced drop chance that could be offset with experience work? If so, why could there not be 'permanent' contracts?

As for indispensable mercs, no matter what strategy one chooses and what merc is chosen there will be times when a player will be at a disadvantage. Being able to rise to that challenge is what makes games interesting, while having a strategy that hinges on a single component is doomed for failure. One should try to be as multifaceted as possible without being spread too thin.

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