Do all the XP penalty complainers just body brigade through the game? Honest question

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Nyon#6673 wrote:

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Vinsdvalh#0247 wrote:

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Nyon#6673 wrote:

You said it was one person, I used 50 as an example, use whichever number you like thats not relevant.

The point is that thats the reasoning behind the argument.
If a game is popular and has alot of concurrent players then its in the game companies interest to please the majority of the active playerbase, and this often might mean that you cant have the game like you like.

Yes but you assume that 350k people has exactly the same opinion than you do. In reality, some don't like the XP penalty but bear with it (like me), some don't like the endgame but bear with it, some don't like the trading system but bear with it, some don't like anything at all and still bear with it.

You're not able to say who like or don't like what aspect of the game. So don't go "it's me and my 349950 pals vs you guys", as far as we know you could be the 50.

Yes your right there is alot of people that dont like it but probably still play. As with other systems. I wasnt trying to present it as it was 50 people, I just used a random number as an example like you did.

Maybe I misunderstood you but the way I understood it was that you meant it was stupid making an argument that they should do what pleases 150k players instead of one because they should just let everyone play the game they want.

And my point is that those two wishes will often collide and it will then be logical for the game company to take the side of the majority of the playerbase (the 150k in your example vs the one). So its not stupid, its logical.

If 150k players comes here and defend XP penalty if it's being challenged, then yes GGG should surely protect it.

And the default, "if it's already there then it should always be there" is just an excuse to not improve the game. Challenging standards is the way to go beyond and further.

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Nyon#6673 wrote:

You still havent pointed out where you quoted me or where I said that early access games dont grow player bases.

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you're right my bad. I accidentally thought you meant playerbase will not grow. English isn't my first language but other than that it's still just you wanting to get mad and deflecting about the loss of progression. it's not helpful and it won't grow the playerbase. sorry for misunderstanding that single point you made.

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

You forgot a few things. While playing SSF and always making my own build, I like when the game tells me I/my build sucks, and force my hand to correct it and dive deeper into number/tree crunching, especially since respect cost nothing now. I don't need other people to tell me how to play, the game does it already well enough. If anything, death penalty improves my attention to my build and my adaptability/creativity.

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You can have a lot of fun in Softcore while playing PoE2. One important first step is to stop believing level 100 is mandatory of some sort, and that XP don't really matter past some point. It's not necessary to compare the last levels in PoE2 to the last levels in others games. If doing so, XP loss as death penalty isn't really annoying at all, not even frustrating, and surely not a reason to quit.

i agree with you halfway.

i too like playing/making my own build. i actually would PREFER to play SSF too but as is, playing in trade speeds up the process too much that i feel if i play SSF i m wasting my time (digressing a bit, got to maps, played for sometime, failed to fix resists. spent my exalts and immediately fixed everything, game felt much better after).

theres a lot of satisfaction making and playing your own build and pushing it further. i believe we are both in agreement with this.

we diverge when it comes to "death penalty as a reminder/notification" that my build is currently not strong enough. sometimes mistakes happen and sometimes theres just bugs etc.

this is not 1998 where i was much younger and have more time to spend grinding.

if we're going the route of inconveniencing players, have you ever played maple story? i have? leveling from 8 to 9 took literally an hour or more. gaining a few % xp at high levels took days/weeks.

to get to max players took literal months and spent IRL money to buy xp death potions that reduced/negated xp loss. in fact back in the day only a small handful dedicated players got up to higher levels.

maple story now is different where you could get to max within a "more reasonable" amount of time.

theres many reasons for it, for starters players have 1001 different choices. if they get bored of maplestory people QUIT the game and play other games instead. thats the route that i took. i played maplestory with a friend, got so damn bored of the grind. and quit never to return again.

similarly i no longer see the "fun" of losing xp in games especially in a "single player pve" game.

i mentioned how i rage quit in poe1. i was so fucking fedup with the game and its 1001 rng bullshit mechanics that can cause me to lose progress.

from ragequitting the game i got hooked onto poe1 again in settlers. why? one main reason is the anti death omen existed, reducing my xp penalty from 10% to 2.5%. 2.5% xp loss is still a lot, but its roughly 1-3 juiced maps. compared to a whole 10%.

2.5 still stung, but i did not feel so disheartened seeing a chunk of my xp bar disappear into the void. i still lost xp but i still was motivated to continue.

this was the entire ONE reason i continued playing. to reach 100. it was something i saw myself being able to achieve. i just had to keep pushing.

if xp loss was just the same. i would have rage quitted settlers much earlier.

as for level 100 not being mandatory.

i agree with you only partially. in poe1 voidstones are not mandatory, nor are maven invite clears nor are whole lot of other things. but the rewards they provide are significant enough that players want them. "just 1 more point" seems trivial when you have 131 atlas passive points but that 1 point could mean guarantee 3 league content in every map with them being highly juiced and without using scarabs. just 1 more passive point can push your character to greater heights. people are willing to BUY carry services because of how valuable they are.

watcher's eyes range from worthless to mirror tier. an improvement of 1-2% is so highly sought after that prices raise exponentially.

you can have the opinion that level 100 is not necessary, but you cant just expect everyone to share your same opinion.

the fact that in poe1 you can get to level 100 via omens and "carries" means that reaching 100 no longer is something out of pure effort but something that can be bought. 100 divs or so and you can buy yourself a level 100.

if you can buy it, all the penalty does is make a barrier for weaker players. forcing them to save up and "buy services" making other player's wallets fatter.

personally whenever i see people defend the xp penalty i would think they're either people who want to keep it difficult so that only the most dedicated people can reach 100 and thus have prestige, or people who sell carry services.

to me, if you REALLY want prestige. hc 100 is there for you if you really want prestige.

i've reached sc 100. to me i m happy enough but if i want to brag, i would only brag if it were hc 100.

beyond that i see no reason for xp penalties.

its 2025. gamers aint got time for that.

defend it all you want. if gamers ragequit, theres less players playing the game. less players play poe, ggg gets less money, ggg gets less money, then you get less poe.

theres really no reason to have xp penalty at this point.

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toxiitea#5772 wrote:

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Nyon#6673 wrote:

You still havent pointed out where you quoted me or where I said that early access games dont grow player bases.

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you're right my bad. I accidentally thought you meant playerbase will not grow. English isn't my first language but other than that it's still just you wanting to get mad and deflecting about the loss of progression. it's not helpful and it won't grow the playerbase. sorry for misunderstanding that single point you made.

Thanks for finally being honest.

I disagree with you about how the loss of progression affects player numbers.
Me disagreeing with you doesnt mean that im mad or deflecting.
Im trying to explain to you that the player drop that your referring to as to prove your argument is normal for early access games, which is why I asked for one example where it hasnt occured. The example you provided had a much bigger drop.

You can disagree if you want, you can think it hurts the player numbers if you want. I just find it strange since if you watch any stream or yt video of someone talking about POE2 player numbers they litterally say the opposite of you. And if you take the numbers your sharing into context with other early access game releases then poe2 is performing better then atleast the examples ive seen.

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cynic1984#0395 wrote:

do all the hardcore enjoyers just over level and play it safe and never take risks or have any fun? honest question

Mostly, y. Tho, we also amass a huge amount of experience. Like, I've already beat geonor like 20 times. If I die again with my character when I get to geonor again in act 1 I could probably beat it half asleep while playing on the mouse pad. Just from the sheer nr of previous fights.

Aside from that, min max every single thing and play using your gut. If you feel like a random attack did quite a bit too much DMG, don't advance until you get some extra something.

In a nutshell , try to minimise as much as you can the possibility of a one shot

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Vinsdvalh#0247 wrote:

If 150k players comes here and defend XP penalty if it's being challenged, then yes GGG should surely protect it.

And the default, "if it's already there then it should always be there" is just an excuse to not improve the game. Challenging standards is the way to go beyond and further.

That's not how it works. Humans has this thing called "vocal minority" which are a tiny little percentage of people always complaining really loudly. It's doesn't, can't, and shouldn't, ever, be taken as representative as the average opinion of most users.

Feedback, for instance, is a place where the vocal minority strives, and they end up making 90% of negative posts. If the whole playerbase would leave feedback, most of the posts here would be positive feedbacks, but they aren't because the "silent majority" doesn't care about leaving feedback and trust the makers to keep doing their thing.

So if you have a player base of 300k, and only 100 people complaining on the forums, it's safe to assume you are doing something well and that most people do enjoy the content you offer.

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Vinsdvalh#0247 wrote:

If 150k players comes here and defend XP penalty if it's being challenged, then yes GGG should surely protect it.

And the default, "if it's already there then it should always be there" is just an excuse to not improve the game. Challenging standards is the way to go beyond and further.

1. "if it's already there then it should always be there" is a bad argument, I agree.

2. People are in general much more likely to voice their opinion on matters they disagree with or dislike then the other way around.

3. There obviously are alot of people that dislike it, but its equally obvious that there are alot of people who want it to stay, for various reasons. And as long as the game does well in terms of player numbers I dont think its likely that we see any big change to core mechanics thats been part of the game since release of poe1.

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

Feedback, for instance, is a place where the vocal minority strives, and they end up making 90% of negative posts. If the whole playerbase would leave feedback, most of the posts here would be positive feedbacks, but they aren't because the "silent majority" doesn't care about leaving feedback and trust the makers to keep doing their thing.

So why bother with forums for feedback only to ignore it all?

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

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Vinsdvalh#0247 wrote:

If 150k players comes here and defend XP penalty if it's being challenged, then yes GGG should surely protect it.

And the default, "if it's already there then it should always be there" is just an excuse to not improve the game. Challenging standards is the way to go beyond and further.

That's not how it works. Humans has this thing called "vocal minority" which are a tiny little percentage of people always complaining really loudly. It's doesn't, can't, and shouldn't, ever, be taken as representative as the average opinion of most users.

Feedback, for instance, is a place where the vocal minority strives, and they end up making 90% of negative posts. If the whole playerbase would leave feedback, most of the posts here would be positive feedbacks, but they aren't because the "silent majority" doesn't care about leaving feedback and trust the makers to keep doing their thing.

So if you have a player base of 300k, and only 100 people complaining on the forums, it's safe to assume you are doing something well and that most people do enjoy the content you offer.

It's true if you assume that everybody that has something bad to say about the game is going to post it in here. More precisely you're assuming that everybody than hasn't posted anything here thinks the game is 10/10 perfect.

I agree with you that positive feedback is implied (and maybe it shouldn't be like this) and it also applies to people here "complaining" about XP penalty. Some think the game 9/10 and XP penalty is the only thing holding it back from being 10/10. Some dislike every aspect and are just haters who wants to create negativity. And there's all the grey area in the middle.

Hardcore players must be laughing to see people QQ over a ridiculous loss of experience.