The state of Beta Feedback
" The Beta Feedback forum has degenerated dramatically since the start of Open Beta. At that time, most threads focused on actual Beta testing, i.e. exploring and reporting on the multitude of environmental, skill, and item interactions in the game's currently incomplete state. More recently, the forum has been deluged with aggrieved gamers threatening to quit unless GGG responds to their demands. These posters talk more like dissatisfied customers than Beta testers, and treat Beta development like any other commercial product rather than a work in progress. While GGG no doubt continues to monitor the forums on this site, it should be obvious why they rarely respond to posts in this one. |
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" I talked to Chris over this, because I felt it was a real knife in the gut for poor pneuma, who'd been pushing it for over a year. I feel that GGG using reddit to respond to issues long-ignored on their own, official forum is a massive oversight, but it has to be remembered that the forum we have here is far from hermetically sealed. I don't use reddit but I acknowledge the weight it has in terms of information dissemination. You'll also note it wasn't Chris who responded to the issue on reddit. This relates in a fairly large way to why you don't see that much dev interaction with beta feedback these days. During CB, there was a much larger margin of error, breathing space if you will, when a dev posted something that wasn't 100% confirmed. We could have conversations precisely because during CB, people weren't posting everything on reddit or using every dev post as a springboard for their personal rants. The weight of a dev post during OB is impossibly greater than during CB. This is why you see Mark post more than any other dev -- he deals in facts, existing mechanics, not speculation or rumours or plans. Yes, the manifesto and 'please post all feedback to all these issues in ONE THREAD' was a gentle way of saying 'look, we're working on it, no we don't have time to read all your feedback YES we care NO we can't turn back now YES we're doing our best here'. It's precisely as I advised when the manifesto first returned -- the details in those few threads by Chris are sufficient to indicate a course has been chosen and steps are being taken. Every bit of feedback to these steps so far has been speculation -- because you cannot give feedback, solid feedback, on a plan. You can only speculate further. If GGG were to get caught up in responding to all the feedback to something they haven't even done yet, nothing would ever get done. And things need to get done. As usual, just my opinion, I do not represent GGG in any way, etc etc. If I like a game, it'll either be amazing later or awful forever. There's no in-between. I am Path of Exile's biggest whale. Period. Last edited by Foreverhappychan#4626 on Apr 23, 2013, 10:57:45 PM
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So many time I have wanted to post in the Suggestion or Feedback forum before I took a step back and realize: this thread isn't going to go anywhere, and I'm just wasting my time since GGG obviously doesn't care anymore.
I know it's probably not the case, but that's how it's making me feel. They have not acknowledge ANYTHING - that's right, not one single thread - in the Suggestion section. It just feels like I'm talking to wall and no matter what good reasoning I have, nothing will ever happen. |
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Yeah, as I said they responded. That is all. Not any actual insight.
The only person from GGG that I feel is deserving of respect is Mark, he responds often to keystone feedback forum, mostly in regards to explaining mechanics, but at least he is responding. I made a post asking how long the evasion entropy timer lasts, and a few questions, he came back fairly quickly with an answer, now I know that if I go out of evasion (not getting hit) for 5 seconds then it resets. The beta manifesto is nothing like it used to be, it used to have a nice list of 'future goals' that varied from something in a patch or two, to something far in the future of open beta. Now it just feels like a list of "we know theres something wrong here". Simple things like melee being so weak for so long, these so called 'melee patches' and 'fixes to make melee better' with multistrike/melee splash, yet no comments on how they are planning on fixing the melee range disparity, or deal with the insane minion damage output, or the rampancy of auras which is due to the ridiculous mana requirements to get mana regen up. No comments at all, not even to acknowledge there is an issue with how exalts are 1 in 4 months if your lucky (i have had less luck than this, 1 in all my time with the game since closed beta, think I have seen 3 drop in total in parties I have played in), yet all they do is an augmentation orb, except for rares. So they should be rare, but so rare they aren't actually worth using on any midtier to high tier gear, only on godly gear since you won't find one again for so long. Thats just one issue. There are SO many posted here, so many topics that just come and go, sometimes with amazing feedback. Racers are using the boss HP being set by the number in the instance when it starts. Thread on forums, discussion saying "we could fix this easily if the amount of hp enemies had scaled when people enter/exit instances rather than at the time of the monster spawning". No feedback, a simple "we are looking into this issue" would be good, feedback has been heard, you know they will be doing something. At that point we can realise time constraints of having to code a new method of enemy HP being calculated, but whatever, its going to be done. Personally I just read these forums still because I enjoyed the game, and wish it could be great. I am playing other games most of the time, only occasionally logging in for PoE, and I just browse forums during downtime at work Edit: Want to say, there have been 50 posts since closed beta about the light radius being based on actual hp available when auras reserve some. None have had replies other than "this is intended low light mechanics". One post on reddit gets brian responding "hey, this is a good suggestion, why don't we do this" PURE ANGER Last edited by Real_Wolf#6784 on Apr 23, 2013, 10:59:18 PM
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" http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/322594 -- sorry, what? If I like a game, it'll either be amazing later or awful forever. There's no in-between.
I am Path of Exile's biggest whale. Period. |
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" Okay, I was wrong about one thing, melee being weak, I was just picking something that was not responded to since it was a problem from OB at least, and only now that there is a manifesto is there something saying its being looked into. No estimated turn around time still, which is unhelpful |
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IDK, I just feel there is many more people writing and still the same number of people reading since OB hit. But I will continue posting on these forums and ignoring reddit and I am pretty sure GGG staff should do the same if they want to keep it together.
Also moderators here need to consolidate the feedback more effectively. If there is 561 threads about one thing, merge them, don't just lock the redundant ones. Then, maybe, it will be easier to get the message for GGG. If you miss tools for this kind of things ...I guess ask for them. Yes I think thrice when making new thread. Sometimes I write the feedback and before hitting submit, an intrusive thought pops up in my head and I simply close the tab and go afk. ✠ ✠
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"Thank you for the compliment. I'd like to point out, though, that the reason I can do so is because such answers are quick and relatively simple. I usually at most have to look something up in the code, and I generally know where to look. It's much simpler and faster for me to answer "Does the additional fire resistance from Elemental Equilibrium reduce the damage taken from the ignite triggered when I crit someone with fire?" than it is for Chris to answer "What's going to happen to help melee" I have time to read the forums in frequent little chunks while I wait for things to compile. That doesn't let me cover as much of the posts as I'd like since open beta started, but I also try to keep on top of them in my own time as well. I generally deal with around 5-10 PMs a day, and you guys can't email me directly. Chris, on the other hand, gets enough PMs and emails that I'm not convinced he could respond to all of them even if he didn't do any work - and he's a lot busier with more work to do than I am. He doesn't have the time to read or respond to the forums as often as I manage to, and the posts people want him to respond to tend to be the ones that aren't easy to answer quickly. In short, I do think all the dev team is deserving of respect, and I don't think my ability to answer simple straightforward questions should be taken as a sign that there's something wrong with Chris not being able to answer the hard ones, when he has much less time to do so. "That's not true - a few months back I posted what I felt was a reasonably a detailed response addressing the specific suggestions being made in that thread, why they wouldn't fix the problem adequately, or in a way we were happy with, and explaining that we both do recognise there is a problem, and have specific plans for how we intend to address it when we're able. I'm afraid I don't have time to look for it now and post a link, but it's there. Even I don't have time to post in every repeated thread that comes up. If I find time before I leave tonight, I'll link it here. Last edited by Mark_GGG#0000 on Apr 24, 2013, 12:10:07 AM
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It's not that i think GGG is trying to be malicious or that they don't deserve respect, i just think that it may not be obvious how big of an impact responding so little on the official forums these days actually has on the game, its community and its testers.
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" WTB Merge Thread Button. What do you think we're doing when we lock redundant threads and link to the existing relevant/active ones? :P If I like a game, it'll either be amazing later or awful forever. There's no in-between.
I am Path of Exile's biggest whale. Period. |
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