lightning arrow against new thorns

any of you LA players tried doing maps yet? My LA char gets raped since I stack AS. Wonder what solutions people are thinking off, if any..

Use a different skill against lightning thorns, maybe poisen arrow, fire trap etc.

Ranged attack totem, yes it'll die on them but at least you won't get the damage.
(you can combine both ideas - you swith to PA when you see the thorns and you summon a RAT as well)

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ighnaz wrote:

any of you LA players tried doing maps yet? My LA char gets raped since I stack AS. Wonder what solutions people are thinking off, if any..

welcome to what melee has been dealing with. hopefully they keep it this way

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Drahken wrote:

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ighnaz wrote:

any of you LA players tried doing maps yet? My LA char gets raped since I stack AS. Wonder what solutions people are thinking off, if any..

welcome to what melee has been dealing with. hopefully they keep it this way

well i dont see why it's bad for melee. None of my melee characters have trouble with it. LA gets destroyed because of the number of attacks it deals to a certain target.

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Sony_Black wrote:

Use a different skill against lightning thorns, maybe poisen arrow, fire trap etc.

Ranged attack totem, yes it'll die on them but at least you won't get the damage.
(you can combine both ideas - you swith to PA when you see the thorns and you summon a RAT as well)

it's not the problem of taking the mobs down it's the fact that the surprise factor is even higher than reflect mobs in certain situations.

I have went to 1/3 of my life without a single hard mod on a map just because i didn't notice the thorns. And I have 9k life and 80 all res.

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ighnaz wrote:

well i dont see why it's bad for melee. None of my melee characters have trouble with it. LA gets destroyed because of the number of attacks it deals to a certain target.

My cleaver attacks 5 times per second. I'd love to be running multistrike for more like 10 attacks per second, but lightning thorns pretty much prevents that from being a viable option.

I think a slight internal cooldown on lightning thorns would be a good solution to the problem. Say a 1/3 of a second cooldown on lightning thorns before it can reflect again (against the same target). Maybe push the damage back up a bit to compensate.

Better yet, have it build charges the longer it goes without reflecting. Monsters with lightning thorns generate a lightning charge once per second, up to a maximum of 5 charges. When they're hit, they discharge all charges against their attacker. This way lightning thorns isn't necessarily so much worse for fast attacks than for slower ones.

I'm afraid they made these skills to slow down cookie cutter builds that steamroll through content. Of course it just punishes fast attackers, but that's how it is. Some fast melee had trouble with thorns before, now some ranged chars will too. In the end it gives a bit of advantage to slow attackers, which is actually good considering the game balance right now.
PA, totems, curses, minions, paying attention, choosing targets wisely.

I got myself an Lioneye's and was lucky enough to 6-link it yesterday on my lvl 87 hc char. Today i died from a random offscreen LA shot, so now i'm farming docs in default for lvl 66 maps while trying to decide if i should move my hc maps to default or not :p

So yea, i got problems with them aswell. i used GMP to reduce the threat of reflect damage, but instead it seems that contributed to me dying from thorns.

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magicrectangle wrote:

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ighnaz wrote:

well i dont see why it's bad for melee. None of my melee characters have trouble with it. LA gets destroyed because of the number of attacks it deals to a certain target.

My cleaver attacks 5 times per second. I'd love to be running multistrike for more like 10 attacks per second, but lightning thorns pretty much prevents that from being a viable option.

do you know how much attacks I do to a single target with 3.5 APS LA build? that's not even comparable. Even regular LA builds that do not have lioneyes and kaoms will probably struggle immensely(or even more). I'd just really like for these people to express their opinions on this thread.

By the way I'm not saying that they should change it. For me it's certainly fair that both melee and ranged get fair treatment on this matter. However the real question is if it's even necessary to have such thorns in the first place. I mean as far as I'm concern builds that stacks AS over damage should be treated fairly in this scenario. I would be for the idea of thorns damage scale on the actual amount of damage dealt(just like they made life on hit scale). This would solve your cleave issue as well as AS stacking builds.

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wiggin wrote:

I'm afraid they made these skills to slow down cookie cutter builds that steamroll through content. Of course it just punishes fast attackers, but that's how it is. Some fast melee had trouble with thorns before, now some ranged chars will too. In the end it gives a bit of advantage to slow attackers, which is actually good considering the game balance right now.
PA, totems, curses, minions, paying attention, choosing targets wisely.

while LA might be considered a cookie cutter build it certainly is not better than something like dual totem sparks. Not even close. LA players who stack damage usually die to reflect. I don't see how any high dps LA build would survive say a pack of thorns witches with reflect. You also have issue on reflect maps, -res maps, el weakness maps. And if you're one of those lucky people to get lioneye's so you can actually stack AS instead you get countered by thorns now as well. Just saying, LA might be a cookie cutter build, but it's one of the riskiest builds in the game.