A game doesn't need to be hard to be fun

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This is my first time posting, and its a bit long, so I apologize for any formatting issues

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Ever since 3.15(I would guess probably as early as the time they released the Development Manifesto: Harvest Crafting) I felt GGG changed in their stance/direction, in the past I always felt hyped for new league releases. I could always expect GGG to deliver, and they always did and exceeded expectations (Its like slamming an exalt and expecting a tier 1 affix but you get an elevated affix). I could close my eyes and know GGG would always exceed expectations and deliver a great product. Yes GGG was that good. Kind of similar to what I, and probably many others, felt about Blizzard in the past.

Since 3.15 I no longer feel hyped for new league releases, although awesome content are still being released(e.g. Atlas Passive Tree), almost every expansion since felt like GGG has been trying various ways to make the game as hard as they can(and they are becoming better at making nerfs not sound like nerfs, using words like "rework", "rebalance", etc).

Don't get me wrong, making the game harder is fine, however I find that this push towards hard mode seems to have cost a substantial amount of fun(e.g. Greatly Reduced Player Power due to 3.15 Skill Gem Balance and as a result, Greatly Reduced Viable Builds which forces player into playing meta builds, Archnemesis Mods being very punishing and anti-fun, etc) as a result, which is not fine and has lead to the reduced hype for me.

The game will get harder going forward. They are in the midst of redoing the acts, and they have only done up to Act 2. Act 3 to Act 10 is going to be harder in the future and who knows what else is installed for 3.19 and the leagues after.

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Exilecon

I went to Exilecon in 2019 (By the way the event is awesome, it's the most fun time I've had in my life! Thank you GGG for making the event)

There I had the chance to try out POE 2, obviously I wasn't going to miss the chance to play it when I was already there. At that point in time, my mind was full of hype and excitement for POE 2(I mean they just announced it!) and I thought it was fine after playing.

In hindsight looking back, now that I can objectively think about it, I think it actually wasn't that fun. Outside of normal mobs, the magic, rare and unique mobs were very tough and there was the risk of dying at a lot of points in the game. It was quite punishing when fighting the hard mobs, plus it felt a bit unnecessarily draggy because fights take a lot longer compared to POE 1(It was 3.8 Blight League then).

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On the other hand, you know what is super fun? The POE Card Game. The Card Game have us, the player, fighting monsters which are represented by GGG staff(Big shoutout to them, awesome and friendly People!) and they will reward us with loot(cards) when we defeat them. They were located on the 3 levels of the halls where Exilecon was held.

The Card Game wasn't hard and it wasn't punishing. The GGG staff doesn't have Archnemesis Mods on them, that forces me to dodge the degen on the ground as I interact with them. They also didnt take 5 min to defeat before giving me the loot reward.

In fact, I as the player can't even die. There is ZERO punishing mechanics. It is just pure fun and is rewarding. The card game was so much fun that I probably climbed several years worth of stairs during the 2 days there! Thanks GGG for helping me lose some weight! ;)

To clarify, I don't mean that we should be invincible or we can just one tap a monster and they will die. That is totally no fun either. What I want to say, is that things can be fun without being unnecessarily hard and punishing and I think fun is the most important thing in a game.

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Player Numbers and Retention

Player numbers don't lie, here's a link to another reddit thread for number(Player Peak and Retention %) references:

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/uv7axc/1_week_player_retention_basic_figures_for/

Pre 3.15 POE was always growing, reaching new peak in player count and retention was pretty consistent at 70%+. Since 3.15 peak number seems to have plateaued and retention number seems to have dropped.

Now its simple, I think if a game is fun, word will spread and more and more people will play it, and those people who play it will keep on playing it because its fun. If it is not, they will just move on to other games/things that are more fun.

POE is not at a bad state(Numbers wise), its just that the peak is not growing compared to the past. At the same time, retention has fallen and my guess is it might have something to do with the overall reduced fun of the game.

Ultimately, as someone who loves POE, I can't say I want POE to succeed because its already very successful. I just want to see POE continue to grow and become bigger and bigger, perhaps one day reaching 1 million players.

Conclusion

I hope GGG can place more importance and focus on the fun aspect. I believe POE is so successful because it is ultimately a very fun game, not because it is a hard game or might I even say, a challenging game.

Diablo 2 isn't that hard but it is fun, POE Pre 3.15 was Ok and it was very fun!

Harder doesn't always equate to more fun.

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Thank you for reading.

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ciel289 wrote:

a game doesnt need to be easy and failproof to be fun

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Azarhiel wrote:

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ciel289 wrote:

a game doesnt need to be easy and failproof to be fun

Hard, easy those concepts are subjective. If the player finds the game fun and enjoyable that's great.

Personnaly, i don't find the game fun anymore because of :

1/ Player power has dropped since 3.13 when it was still great back then
2/ 3.17 was enjoyable because Archnemesis was not mandatory and rewarding.
3/ sentinel league mechanics are fun
4/ Archnemesis forced feed is not fun
5/ Removing player agency is not fun.

what is fun for me is : 3.17 endgame + 3.13 player power.

Since 3.13, my will to play this game has faded away and was killed in the first hour of the 3.18 !

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Pizzarugi wrote:

I'd imagine people would be having an easier time of this if we still had the character balance of 3.13 with good Harvest crafting and pre-support gem nuke. AN mods wouldn't feel too out-of-place when compared to our previous levels of power.

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AngryGekko wrote:

So, for the first time i built an RF tank...but you know the outcome: oneshotting enemies and the hell of clunky mechanics i.e. in the Sirus fight can't even express my frustration, that even a tank like mine gets destroyed regularily by a total misconception of balancing and poor scripting.

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Kharadas wrote:

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AngryGekko wrote:

So, for the first time i built an RF tank...but you know the outcome: oneshotting enemies and the hell of clunky mechanics i.e. in the Sirus fight can't even express my frustration, that even a tank like mine gets destroyed regularily by a total misconception of balancing and poor scripting.

I dont know, how much you spent into this RF tank, but the char is very tanky. You rarely die, if at all, only due to player mistakes.

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ciel289 wrote:

a game doesnt need to be easy and failproof to be fun