POE Heading to D3 Land...please reconsider
" Seriously how are we supposed to crafting if endgame crafting currency drops once in a milennia? IGN: Smegacore
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open beta happened. in closed beta, there was much less ppl finding top end gear and farming for currency. the game was also easier in closed beta, so the need for top end gear wasn't as big. open beta dropped, the game got harder, increasing the need for better gear, and an influx of many ppl, esp more farmers, quickly saturated the game with currency and gear. when currency and gear become more accesible, it makes trading more profitable compared to finding things yourself.
if anything, optimizing the mods on gear so that rng plays less of a factor for upgrades will solve the farming problem. one example is consolidating build specific mods. casters and powersiphoners want diff mods on a wand, and the likeliness of rolling the desired mods is a bit slim. another way to optimize mods is decreasing the size of the value spread. high ilvl gear can still roll low values. idk if there is bias to higher values with higher ilvl, but i think deceasing the spread would make rng less relevent. the the less relevant rng is, the more rewarding it is to find or reroll gear. |
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The most disconcerting part about the whole thing is how proud the devs seem to be about the fact that their entire game is basically slot machines. Adding more RNG does not make your game more hardcore. It makes your game more casual. Casual players love RNG, they have a chance to do better than top end players because RNG diminishes the value of skill and dedication.
Actual hardcore players can't stand RNG. They want their player skill and dedication to mean something. It's actually patently absurd that GGG would label an RNG-riddled mess as a 'hardcore' game. It's like they don't even know what hardcore even means. Last edited by UnderOmerta#1203 on Apr 15, 2013, 8:00:32 PM
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" Can't agree with this statement anymore. Imagine in WoW, 25 ppl spent 10 min to kill a Heroic end game boss raid fight. The boss drop you top itemlevel equipment, however, they all roll suck pre/suffix, so, the stats are a joke. And this repeat to happen. Then you can think how many of their player will quit. Enough said. Simple as it. IGN: Linsfamily_ST Last edited by spiky0209#0736 on Apr 15, 2013, 9:16:25 PM
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I didn't get a single rare drop (or even any uncommon currency) from a full solo clear of Docks... despite 160% IIR.
Below is literally all that dropped, minus whites and blues. I used to get loads with the IIR that I had. I feel like it's been disabled or something, due to the people who were farming easy chaos orbs in the recent past. |
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" Well, the situation you just described took some level of skill and coordination AND it had RNG. Right now, PoE is JUST huge amounts of RNG; and yes, that by itself is bad. But generally he is right about hardcore people hating RNG; but it's usually pvpers, where RNG dictating the outcome of fights is viewed as exceedingly poor game balance. Alteration Orb Union Local #7
"Alts are 16:1 Chaos. You got that tough guy? |
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" WoW is subscription-based and the boss drops are from a loot table. All the drops are balanced/raid, build, character class... After a few months, a new end game raid will come, which will render the gear you have obsolete and you'll need to farm for new one. Basically Blizz has no reason to RNG you to death, because you pay them constantly and they have constant content updates to keep you playing the game and there is almost always new&better gear you can hunt. PoE is free and the content is extremely limited, so limited they make you play it 3 times to reach an end-game that is just more randomised of the same. You pay no subscription or even initial price, so they cannot churn out endless content, even with their ambitious 10 yrs plan. There is no gear obsoletion and there are no gear tiers. Now, make the comparison and draw your own conclusions. Mine are: - I dislike PoE's model, but I can understand where they are coming from... - I'd like the devs to be honest about this, but the same time, I understand their silence too - to alter PoE to work as a reward4skill&dedication based system like WoW would take big changes to the game systems, and also even bigger changes to the game's ideology - such a change would need to be accompanied with periodic content releases... with gear obsoletion... BoA/E/P etc. Why? Because otherwise there will be a HUGE influx of good gear in the game, and I can guarantee you players will get bored in 3 weeks of OP play with the same content and no challenges ahead. - there would need to be actually hard content to justify/gate the big semi-guaranteed good rewards, maps just won't do. Very hard content will mean lots of deaths, so expect HC to become quite useless and Default's penalty would need to be reworked completely . . . And many, many other changes. So why would GGG do any of this? The game is approximately working as it is, why change it so extensively? Think real good about this. Annoying as it is, I don't think this game will ever move away from full RNG, it just suits the limited resources GGG has. At least this is my conclusion after quite a bit of (over)thinking on this. placeholder for creative sig
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^
Read too much into the WoW convo, lol. And in any case, not one person in this thread is clamoring for full removal of RNG in this game, it isn't reasonable or possible. The problem is there is too much RNG in terms of individual RNG mechanics on just about everything, combined with it's severity. Furthermore, the various RNG aspects of this game are inter-related, they feed off of one another, they compound and worsen one another. All they need to do is tone some of them down, by doing things like increasing orb drop rates, making it so fusings do not diminish link amount (it can only fail to add new links, never subtract them), same with sockets, remove some horseshit stats like + to thorns on a damn exalted and make orb power and chance to be beneficial be in line with their rarity, up the drop rate on higher level maps and make maps drop with good stats already on them so they aren't such a currency vacuum, make wealth mobs more common, make large chests worth a damn, etc. Even some of these things would have a chain reaction effect and lessen the absolute ridiculous prevalence and prominence RNG has in this game by a good amount, therefore making more players feel like they have some level of control and effect on their progress outside of mindless grinding and praying that the casino pays out. Alteration Orb Union Local #7 "Alts are 16:1 Chaos. You got that tough guy? Last edited by Obsidus#7533 on Apr 16, 2013, 12:39:07 AM
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Its not even so much the RNG. RNG always exists, it adds to the fun factor in a number of ways. Random side topic, FTL is a purely RNG based game in a number of ways, but its a lot of fun because the RNG feels like its actual RNG not just 'no luck'
PoE is heading towards a more 'no luck' feeling, while RNG should really be more a case of consistently getting averagely lucky, sometimes you have a dip where you aren't gettin geceptional luck but still doing well, and sometimes getting better than average, but not overpowered. Its the old bellcurve, atm the bellcurve is situated very low because of how the RNG is working, yet you need that RNG to progress, while in comparison in D2 you didn't need the RNG to progress, you could do so with the average gear all the way to endgame, and then at endgame you just got stronger and stronger, rather than getting to endgame and having to grind for items to be able to do it. Its a weird change really, where you don't make your character super powerful because you can, but because you have to, as being just strong is not enough for endgame content (maps), and you can't level efficiently except doing maps so you feel stupid not doing them |
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" Well, I have just compared the 2 systems, and approximated how a WoW reward4skill system (which still contains RNG) will affect PoE. From you post, all your suggestions will make PoE invariably more rewarding. This will result in more and more great gear in the game and more and more currency (unless they make the currency actually worth trying in regards to crafting). What item sink does PoE Default have? NONE. Stuff will just accumulate, and accumulate. Most people here hate gear obsoletion, they want a good rare to last them like, forever (beats me how you could want this, but meh). I repeat: if GGG is to make the game more rewarding, they need to change lots of other stuff to make people play for prolonged periods of time. The accumulation of gear needs to be offset somehow. This mechanism does not yet exist in Default, in HC is player death (which coincidentally spills even more items in Default...). I've been arguing for compromise solutions like you have for weeks here. But I've become more and more sceptical. If anything, I've seen more nerfs instead of buffs, like for the chests or chaos recipes. This is indicative that systems that allow more wealth/items into the game will probably not make it beyond these forums. But you can still try to suggest them, of course. It's not like GGG will ever bother to give you a definitive answer and drive you away, if you know what I mean ;) placeholder for creative sig
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