Vaal Cyclone Change Inconsistency

Hi,
In path 3.14 you have buffed plenty of vaal skill, one of them was vaal cyclone. According to my understanding you want those skills to be used. However since there is no CHANNELING skill tag on VAAL CYCLONE it wont benefit from infused channeling, which is ridiculous. Is this even intended? If so noone would ever use vaal cyclone, if not maybe fix it? I cant imagine someone playing cyclone who doesnt use infused channeling so, check this out. Thanks.
Last bumped on May 5, 2021, 12:07:18 PM
I personally don't see anything wrong in Vaal Cyclone being non-channeling and Cyclone being channeling.

Cyclone will last as long you are keeping its button pressed. That's the very definition of channeling: performing an action until a button is released, without resorting to the concept of "cast again if you have enough mana/life/ES"
Vaal Cyclone is a single attack, that is repeated for some seconds after its use, after you press the button once. It's a duration skill, with the extra handicap of "rooting" you in place when using it. While channeling skills usually keep the user in place when using them (with the flagrant exception of Cyclone), being rooted during Vaal Cyclone's effect does not automatically qualifies it as Channeling

Also, its mechanic didn't change with 3.8 when Cyclone turned into a Channeling Skill. Thus, it kept Cyclone's original identity, as in "Click an area to perform an attack while 'walking' toward selected area, hitting everything in your path". Which is not what channeling is about, once again.
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Maxtrux wrote:
I personally don't see anything wrong in Vaal Cyclone being non-channeling and Cyclone being channeling.

Cyclone will last as long you are keeping its button pressed. That's the very definition of channeling: performing an action until a button is released, without resorting to the concept of "cast again if you have enough mana/life/ES"
Vaal Cyclone is a single attack, that is repeated for some seconds after its use, after you press the button once. It's a duration skill, with the extra handicap of "rooting" you in place when using it. While channeling skills usually keep the user in place when using them (with the flagrant exception of Cyclone), being rooted during Vaal Cyclone's effect does not automatically qualifies it as Channeling

Also, its mechanic didn't change with 3.8 when Cyclone turned into a Channeling Skill. Thus, it kept Cyclone's original identity, as in "Click an area to perform an attack while 'walking' toward selected area, hitting everything in your path". Which is not what channeling is about, once again.


You are right however vaal cyclone is not a duration skill either. Actually it has no skill tag, and it does not benefit from infused channeling(which has duration tag). So according to you who would ever use that skill? Seems like you have lots of information about the game, tell me if anyone would use that skill, with the problem that i have mentioned. I am trying to tell that, at this stance of vaal cyclone, still noone would prefer to use it. I would like to hear your opinion.
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alisahinler wrote:

You are right however vaal cyclone is not a duration skill either.


Not quite.



What happened here is that the tag for both the skills are "fused" into one single header. Thus, a Vaal Cyclone skill gem will get both "Duration" and "channeling" tags. However, the Channeling tag is related to the normal Cyclone, while the Duration tag comes from Vaal Cyclone. This is done so that items that boosts Duration skill gems will still benefit Vaal Cyclone, boosting Cyclone too since they are both skills granted by the same gem. +x level modifiers only care about Tags on the gem, after all.
To have a further proof of this, try to support with Less Duration your Vaal Cyclone. You will see that it will benefit Vaal Cyclone, since it has a Duration tag (and actually has a native duration in it), but will not benefit Cyclone, since it has no Duration tag (and no native duration).

As to "Who would actually use Vaal Cyclone", I dare say its use was enough of a trouble for GGG that they had to nerf the IIQ/IIR drop bonus on Tormented Soul's Touched Enemies because it was easily exploitable with Vaal Cyclone - Get yourself a filled breach, lure a Tormented Soul nearby, whirl and make the soul touch all of the breach dezines for extra loot. The biggest power of Vaal Cyclone is about the reverse-knockback effect, rather than big damages. I can also think about other uses, like a Replica Trypanon (exploiting the Hits Can't Be Evaded from Vaal Cyclone for a rapid flurry of crits), but apart from that I can't think of many competitive uses of Vaal Cyclone itself. Of course - nay, surely I am wrong and there is a big streamer out there ready to prove me wrong.

Admittedly, Infused Channeling would be sorely needed in a Vaal Cyclone because of the rooting handicap - Infused Channeling was created exactly to provide a defence to channeling users, hence its first name, "Storm Barrier". Still, the fact Vaal Cyclone's effect is tied to a duration rather than a user-controlled activation is a reason sound enough to make it not be considered a Channeling Skill.

Actually, we can also consider the other way aroud - what if Cyclone was considered a Duration Skill for the sake of Support gems? a Cyclone coupled with a Swift Affliction may help Poison stackers with basically no drawback - as there is no duration to lower - combine it with Efficacy and a Poison + Rupture Bleed Cycloner may not be so niche as it may feel...
everything does not work with everything. there are many applicable support gems, and there are many ways how to use cyclone. If you want to use vaal cyclone then you have to decide if you drop channeling support or not. btw, according to poe.ninja, only 1/3 of cycloners actually use Infused channeling support gem. that is not even close to your "imaginations" :)

honestly, vaal cyclone looks cool, but being locked in place for 5 seconds is not a good strategy for someone who wants to survive in endgame.
IGN: Eric_Lindros
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I appreciate all the information you have provided in here, i didnt know most of it however none of the information answers my question. Is this intended or not. According to me there is no reason for Vaal Cyclone to be not benefiting from infused channeling. I would be glad if someoene could give a information about it (either it is intended or not). Thank you
Vaal Cyclone is fundamentally not a channelling skill.
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Mark_GGG wrote:
Vaal Cyclone is fundamentally not a channelling skill.


Thank you!
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alisahinler wrote:
who would ever use that skill?


Nobody.

Since it makes you stand in place while it's active the skill is useless.
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Gulch wrote:
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alisahinler wrote:
who would ever use that skill?


Nobody.

Since it makes you stand in place while it's active the skill is useless.


Almost all damage abilities in game require you to stop moving and stand in place for a while, to be able to cast a spell/execute a melee attack/summon totems/shoot an arrow/etc.

Very, very few don't, like Cyclone or RF.


Last edited by bgdmm on May 4, 2021, 8:53:36 AM

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