When Harvest goes Core - please make Hortification Stations tradable

We need a way to trade crafts please.

Hm.... trading the seeds and the stations? Hm.

Well... would you open the garden? I left some nice horrid there thinking they would be erased anyway... 😢
I miss the real crafting so much...

No, the ability to trade crafts is what broke Harvest and made it seem too powerful. Though I'm not sure if there's any fix for that.

I really hope they don't nerf Harvest just so people can trade crafts easier, though that is the result I'm expecting.

SSF Harvest has been the best experience of character development within PoE for me. But seeing the monstrous items that came from trade where people could dump endless currency was insane. Which is why I'm expecting huge nerfs due to their lack of ability to limit trading the crafts.

I feel like them not allowing the Horticulture Stations to be tradeable was their attempt at limiting the trading of those crafts. They must have thought about if they should or shouldn't and they made a choice. It just didn't have the result they wanted it to I'd imagine.

In a dream world they would just adjust the trade and SSF communities to different levels of seeing the rarer crafts, but that's never going to happen. Someone's gonna get the short end of the stick and I know it's gonna be SSF.

Harvest had a number of issues, the ability to trade crafts is not what made it broken. Did you see the items that players were churning out in just 2-3 days during the gauntlet? Being able to easily face tank Sirus A8 with all damage mods turned on during a race? A lot of the ridiculous 5-6 x T1 items I crafted were using my own crafts, and it felt disgusting. The vast majority of these kinds of crafts could have done quickly and deterministically as well.

Even if we disregard the ridiculous power of harvest crafting, it was undoubtedly the worst mechanic I have seen in the game in terms of implementation. The garden itself was unnecessarily complex to setup (complex may not be the right word here) and tedious to maintain. The decision to make horticrafting stations have just 3 slots each was outright bizarre and was obviously going to present inventory/craft management issues. Why not have just one horticrafting station with expandable slots, or one hortificrafting station for each colour seed?

Then we get to OPs point about trading crafts, and he is right. I think we will have to wait and see how harvest has been tweaked before commenting much more, but the implementation in 3.11 was pathetic. Crafts should have either been tradeable, similar to rare beasts or account bound in some way, e.g. items which you harvest craft become account bound.

I just don‘t accept the „harvest was too strong“ narrative.
It was still a slot machine but with a lot less slots. Sure there are people who spend almost as much time playing poe as they spend working and these especially created a lot of extremely good gear. So what? They always get more stuff/currency in every league.
I played one char in harvest and it was great. Took me all league to (almost) finish his gear.

I really liked planning the crafting, I thought quite a bit about Poe while no playing it. ^^
SSF Must have been a complete new world...

Can‘t say that I traded less (hate the system btw), I bought bases (6linking is a nightmare)... well, a few. I just don‘t have exalts drop like candy so I would never have been able to buy the lucky crafts of others.

The garden was beautiful. Well, not the tanks or the amount of horticrafting stations and the setting up took forever but it was so beautifully designed. The monsters as well. Delirium in it was cool, too. It was a change of pace and I liked it.

For me the easiest way to getting it back would be to just get it back but making finding seed caches not that common.
Also keeping the garden setup when it was set up once in any league or character.
(I mean... with a real crafting system GGG could make even harder opponents, I guess...)

Tried and try playing heist from time to time but there is no point to try to „craft“ anything as it is just stupid gambling.
The game has lost a lot of its attractiveness for me. It won‘t get it back with a crippled version of the league I loved.

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Matt_AsA_Hatter wrote:

I really hope they don't nerf Harvest just so people can trade crafts easier, though that is the result I'm expecting.

Same. I'd be okay if GGG makes everything related to Harvest unable to be traded with, so long as they don't nerf the mechanics to oblivion or at all.

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YersiniaD wrote:

For me the easiest way to getting it back would be to just get it back but making finding seed caches not that common.
Also keeping the garden setup when it was set up once in any league or character.

They have outright said that first bullet is a blocker-issue making Harvest in its 3.11 incarnation not viable, as the Garden only progresses when you pop a seed cache, and the standard 10% for league mechanics would mean you'd advance it, on average, every tenth map or so.

The second one was already a thing in Harvest league - both my main and my alt had the same garden, same seeds, etc.

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Song_Ryeske wrote:

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YersiniaD wrote:

For me the easiest way to getting it back would be to just get it back but making finding seed caches not that common.
Also keeping the garden setup when it was set up once in any league or character.

They have outright said that first bullet is a blocker-issue making Harvest in its 3.11 incarnation not viable, as the Garden only progresses when you pop a seed cache, and the standard 10% for league mechanics would mean you'd advance it, on average, every tenth map or so.

The second one was already a thing in Harvest league - both my main and my alt had the same garden, same seeds, etc.

The first point could surely be fixed by binding the growth to some other „timer“ and with the second one I meant actually that the setup stays through all leagues like your hideout.

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Matt_AsA_Hatter wrote:

No, the ability to trade crafts is what broke Harvest and made it seem too powerful. Though I'm not sure if there's any fix for that.

Account-bound items wound be a fix, maybe not necessarily a good fix, but they would certainly fix a significant fraction of the problems. However, they will never happen. In any way, I also think there are better ways of balancing harvest (for example limiting the amount of modifiers an item may have for harvest crafting to be possible on it).

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BrettLee wrote:

Harvest had a number of issues, the ability to trade crafts is not what made it broken.

Did you see the items that players were churning out in just 2-3 days during the gauntlet? Being able to easily face tank Sirus A8 with all damage mods turned on during a race? A lot of the ridiculous 5-6 x T1 items I crafted were using my own crafts, and it felt disgusting.

The garden itself was unnecessarily complex to setup (complex may not be the right word here) and tedious to maintain. The decision to make horticrafting stations have just 3 slots each was outright bizarre and was obviously going to present inventory/craft management issues. Why not have just one horticrafting station with expandable slots, or one hortificrafting station for each colour seed?

Then we get to OPs point about trading crafts, and he is right. ... Crafts should have either been tradeable, similar to rare beasts or account bound in some way, e.g. items which you harvest craft become account bound.

Yes, easy trading is what broke it. Explode chests everywhere!

Yes, skilled players with endless playtime should be able to do that. Allowing them to have more control while racing is a good thing, it lets it come down to more skill based decisions.

I don't see how you feel disgusted with the ability to create quality items. I got a few that were darn close and nothing brought me more joy.

The garden itself was a bit extra, they could have simplified that whole thing quite a lot. I assure you, trying to navigate it with a joystick is so much worse than a mouse too. I don't know of many people that say building the farm was the highlight of the league.

That decision was made for inventory space, gotta eat up space to sell tabs. Look at the rogue equipment, there's a reason the Heist locker doesn't hold those. Would I rather purchase a Horticulture tab that functions like Einhar, absolutely!!

Account bound/tradeable like Einhar, but they need to make the cost of the 'beast' to trade it very high (2ex) like multi modding and have it be one craft per 'beast'. (6L, white socket, ect.) By having it as a single craft you could market and trade/sell it. By having the cost very high you would use the more modest crafts yourself personally. Because if you allow everyone to freely trade everything at a marginal cost, then the crafts themselves are bound to be nerfed to death. That's the best solution I can think of for allowing trading of crafts, but not allowing trading to ruin Harvest crafts.

As much as I wish account bound could be a thing, GGG will never allow that. Even for SSF they want you to have the ability to bring the item to trade if you wanted to do so.