What does this game offer over Diablo III?

"

Tagek wrote:

You wouldve liked them to just let you sit there without telling you that the beta was over?..

Well, it's always nice to know when something is done. But in that case, the message was too over-blown for my tastes. I like it subdued (which might be in fact part of why I favour PoE over Diablo III). I like a game silently shaking my hand instead of having a crowd of cheerleads do somersaults while I'm showered in glitter dust.

"

Anyway, I get what you mean, I sort of felt satisfaction while killing merveil... but not on the first difficulty.

Even if you get frozen she just wails at you while it doesn't really do anything. The same thing goes for leoric. (Although those blows actually hurt quite a bit with a first time character)

Well, that "being wailed on while frozen" actually killed me a few times (before I knew the value of or had resists and a high health pool), since she completely disables you, and does more damage than you can heal (well, at least more than I could) with potions, at least after a time.

Yeah, but not on the first difficulty.
You don't need health or resists there at all.
(perhaps on ranger since she starts out so incredibly weak, but that's more of a balance issue compared to the other classes imo)

"

Tagek wrote:

Yeah, but not on the first difficulty.
You don't need health or resists there at all.
(perhaps on ranger since she starts out so incredibly weak, but that's more of a balance issue compared to the other classes imo)

That might be it. The first... oh, five times I battled her was as ranger... damn, I knew the one initially underpowered class was the one that would speak to me :-D.

Coincidentally, I think much of her difficulty comes from the ability to freeze, just like Hailrake in later difficulties. Man, that 5-bolt icespear frightens me...

"

Tagek wrote:

Yeah, but not on the first difficulty.
You don't need health or resists there at all.
(perhaps on ranger since she starts out so incredibly weak, but that's more of a balance issue compared to the other classes imo)

I don't think ranger starts weak at all. She might be more fragile in harder difficulties compared to other classes if you don't build her well, but she definitely doesn't start off weak.

This game doesn't even have classes. All five of the "classes" are identical save for a different visual character model and a slightly different starting spot on the passive tree. It's funny how GGG is teasing the sixth "class" as if it even matters. It's just going to fill the last node on the tree. This lack of differentiation and variety is a killer. There is no difference between my ranger and a random witch or marauder or *insert "class" here* except for like 10-15 passive tree points or whatever the distance is on the tree.

Diablo 3 completely destroys PoE in this regard -- it actually has completely different classes, with unique play styles and their own unique skills. I have no idea what the devs were thinking when they did this. I have a feeling it was a lack of resources that lead to this design decision. It takes an absolutely massive amount of development to create 5 completely different classes with their own unique skills, items, skill runes, and play styles as Blizzard did with D2 and D3. The class system in PoE is a facade that anyone who's played for more than a few hours can see through but again, I can't blame them for this as it's 18 people that made the game.

But to answer the question in the OP, there are a few things I really enjoy about PoE that are lacking in D3.

- First is global chat. This adds a lot to the community aspect and was a great addition to the game. Unfortunately due to the millions that will buy D3 this type of chat system just isn't possible in-game unless you have like thousands of chat channels (i.e. "Global Chat #4268).

- Second is the mini town hubs where players congregate, although people tend to just keep to themselves and not really interact with each other so it feels superficial.

- Third is the textures. They're sharper and higher resolution than D3.

- The potions are a nice addition but have obviously lead to huge balance issues and in the case of Diamond Flasks have completely broken the game. It's poor game design to pop potions constantly.

That's about it. I'm not as enamored with the passive tree as I was when I started the beta. Once you spend some time with it you see that it's not as impressive as it looks on the surface.

"

ZtriDer wrote:

"

Tagek wrote:

The stat modification system has only improved from the previous game.

If you call removing improving that is :p
Blizzard did not improve stat modification, they removed stat modification.
They made sure that you can't make mistakes or choose wieard modifications of your stats.
They made sure that the stupid could play and still do as well as the best players by removing the option of modification.
That is the modification you like.

Well, that is why I'll stick with PoE. IMO that is one of the strong points of this game. The option to control my own character. The option to fail or succeed by my own hand. The option to experiment with my character. The options to simply have to choose.
This game gives you the feeling of actually evolve your character.
IMO that feeling is make or brake in an RPG for me. If you can’t choose how your character evolves, then it is no longer an RPG. It is then a FPS in a top down view.

That is what Diablo 3 is to me. A FPS in a top down view.

yea the D3 beta felt like a joke to me, I would hardly call it an rpg

"

ZtriDer wrote:

"

Tagek wrote:

The stat modification system has only improved from the previous game.

If you call removing improving that is :p
Blizzard did not improve stat modification, they removed stat modification.
They made sure that you can't make mistakes or choose wieard modifications of your stats.
They made sure that the stupid could play and still do as well as the best players by removing the option of modification.
That is the modification you like.

Well, that is why I'll stick with PoE. IMO that is one of the strong points of this game. The option to control my own character. The option to fail or succeed by my own hand. The option to experiment with my character. The options to simply have to choose.
This game gives you the feeling of actually evolve your character.
IMO that feeling is make or brake in an RPG for me. If you can’t choose how your character evolves, then it is no longer an RPG. It is then a FPS in a top down view.

That is what Diablo 3 is to me. A FPS in a top down view.

The thing is, diablo 2 never had any stat choice. At all.
What you did was you picked the optimal stats, so enough strength to wear your armor, and enough dex (~75) to get max block. Then you'd pump the rest in vitality.
All builds but perhaps that one soso build NEVER put ANY points into energy, because it was useless.
Everyone followed these guidelines, and if you didn't, you were just dumb. There was no 'being good' at making a character (nor can you ever be), you just followed the cooky cutter builds in every way.

If you think pumping everything into vitality after you can wear your gear is customisation, then so be it.
But I'd personally rather have D3's system where you can actually make valid choices between having more offense, more defense, more resistances or more dodge for example.

"

WAWAMELONS wrote:

This game doesn't even have classes. All five of the "classes" are identical save for a different visual character model and a slightly different starting spot on the passive tree. It's funny how GGG is teasing the sixth "class" as if it even matters. It's just going to fill the last node on the tree. This lack of differentiation and variety is a killer. There is no difference between my ranger and a random witch or marauder or *insert "class" here* except for like 10-15 passive tree points or whatever the distance is on the tree.

Diablo 3 completely destroys PoE in this regard -- it actually has completely different classes, with unique play styles and their own unique skills. I have no idea what the devs were thinking when they did this. I have a feeling it was a lack of resources that lead to this design decision. It takes an absolutely massive amount of development to create 5 completely different classes with their own unique skills, items, skill runes, and play styles as Blizzard did with D2 and D3. The class system in PoE is a facade that anyone who's played for more than a few hours can see through but again, I can't blame them for this as it's 18 people that made the game.

But to answer the question in the OP, there are a few things I really enjoy about PoE that are lacking in D3.

- First is global chat. This adds a lot to the community aspect and was a great addition to the game. Unfortunately due to the millions that will buy D3 this type of chat system just isn't possible in-game unless you have like thousands of chat channels (i.e. "Global Chat #4268).

- Second is the mini town hubs where players congregate, although people tend to just keep to themselves and not really interact with each other so it feels superficial.

- Third is the textures. They're sharper and higher resolution than D3.

- The potions are a nice addition but have obviously lead to huge balance issues and in the case of Diamond Flasks have completely broken the game. It's poor game design to pop potions constantly.

That's about it. I'm not as enamored with the passive tree as I was when I started the beta. Once you spend some time with it you see that it's not as impressive as it looks on the surface.

You're dead right in the facts, and yet I have reached completely different conclusions. The different starting positions for each class make the early game quite diverse, not to mention the different starting stats. Sure, you can bend one class towards another class's 'natural' tendencies but as you pointed out, it will take extra levels to get there. Those same levels are where the 'native' class to that area are developing early natural talent in that area. This is the price you pay if you want to play a different type of character for your class. Ten to fifteen points are just as valuable at end-game than at the beginning, I would assume.

Where you see this as a lack of variation between the clases, I see it as a fecundity of variation within them. You can't invoke D3 as a solution to the latter, for the reasons I have cited ad nauseum elsewhere. But for the former, then absolutely, the variations between the D3 classes couldn't be more opposite to the variation between the classes of Path of Exile. They have utterly different skillsets, sometimes class-locked gear. A Witch Doctor as it stands would be very hard to melee-spec -- nothing something I could say about any class in any other ARPG I've ever played since Diablo 1. This level of class variation from each other may lead to such inevitable class uniformity within the class, but I don't believe so. It just did in Diablo 3's case. And I would assume that this is to your liking: 'completely different skills, completely different playstyles'. Fair enough. Doesn't appeal to me, but that's personal and I'm just thankful that games like PoE exist that do appeal to me.

As to how much development it might have taken to complete D3's very different classes, well, they still half-assed the promising, promised rune system at the eleventh hour so I sort of wish they'd spent a little less time making their five so 'different' and a little more time making the rune system work as intended. Oh. Well.

The sixth class, to get back to PoE, will always introduce a whole new set of skill gems, notably totems and traps. I also expect a few more dual-wielding skills to be thrown in, and hopefully more raw spells as well. The count is around 50 now, and the last suggestion by GGG was that they'd be aiming for around 100 by open beta. Keep in mind that every class gets different gems for the quest rewards. A subtle difference, but a difference. Either way, the sixth class is very exciting for more reasons than just the starting position -- although I've tried to reach it with other characters and it does take quite a while. Gimps the crap out of a ranger, I can tell you.

I like, and possibly even love, the idea of being able to make any class do whatever I want if I'm willing to limp the way; you, it seems, would rather have a selection of classes that fill their own unique role better than anyone else. To me, that's far too much predetermination and I don't feel like I'm making much choice. I get the feeling that most people who prefer the D3 skill model have accepted that certain classes will be used for certain roles, so why not make them automatically the best at it?...This is a fundamental difference of opinion and not something to be resolved, just accepted.

So where you see PoE as failing, I see it as succeeding. I wouldn't presume to say either of us are right, but both of us are lucky there are games to satisfy our very different desires in an ARPG.

And I love the global chat too. It's like playing D2 but being in a Bnet channel at the same time. A nice sense of community in a social sense without necessarily having to play together. I really like that.

"

Tagek wrote:

The thing is, diablo 2 never had any stat choice. At all.
What you did was you picked the optimal stats, so enough strength to wear your armor, and enough dex (~75) to get max block. Then you'd pump the rest in vitality.
All builds but perhaps that one soso build NEVER put ANY points into energy, because it was useless.
Everyone followed these guidelines, and if you didn't, you were just dumb. There was no 'being good' at making a character (nor can you ever be), you just followed the cooky cutter builds in every way.

Are you forgetting I'm here?

"

Tagek wrote:

The thing is, diablo 2 never had any stat choice. At all.
What you did was you picked the optimal stats, so enough strength to wear your armor, and enough dex (~75) to get max block. Then you'd pump the rest in vitality.
All builds but perhaps that one soso build NEVER put ANY points into energy, because it was useless.
Everyone followed these guidelines, and if you didn't, you were just dumb.

Eh, I get what you're saying kind of: I've never like the kind of stat allocation system D2 used, and I don't particularly miss it, but I think you're rather overstating things. If not cloning the generally accepted "optimal" build makes you dumb, then everyone who wasn't running a meteorb sorc or hammerdin is dumb. Fuck that line of thinking.

I always put took energy on my casters to at least 80 and often over 100, and they still beat hell just fine. I had a max-Berserk barbarian with several hundred points in strength, killed Baal no problem. Characters only have to be good enough, and especially if you aren't going to spend years trading for the perfect high level items, then actually, getting some extra points is fine for most stats on most builds. Late game, sure, maybe your sorc won't end up needing that energy, but late-game isn't the only part of the game.

Anyway. For me, the one thing that worries me about D3's stat system is that it may restrict your ability to direct your character into an unusual build, instead making you basically wait until you get lucky with drops. But I've yet to see whether that's actually a problem and I'm not going to assume it is - I suspect the auction house, for a start, will do a lot to keep gear acquisition smooth.