Elephant in the room !!!!

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yamface wrote:
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Nubatron wrote:
There was not enough information for that to be a meaningful statement. Any decent build survives a vanilla minotaur hit. My point was that it's converted which does tend to help right side of the tree builds.


A herald stacker not being able to withstand minotaur with 1-2 damage mods is not meaningful to you? The build that is capped on resistances and almost capped on true physical reduction?

I don't even blame op for not knowing what exact syndicate killed him because there's multiples of them fighting you at the same time and half of them to this day I have no idea what they even do.

Syndicates are the only thing in the game that I actively avoid doing. I just threw everyone in research and ignored jun spawns every map. Part of it is because I get like 5 fps when I fight them. Another reason being that some of these guys do comically high damage for reasons that are not obvious from the players pov. The good old "run circles around them until they die strat" proved to be not a reliable strat as I found out the hard way.


You're quoting individual parts of what I said and missing the point. There is a big difference between Minotaur on a boring map, and minotaur in a triple extra damage, etc. map. No build should live the big slam by the minotaur in a juiced map (though some builds do which I think is a mistake...some things in the game that telegraphed should be a one-shot). He doesn't even mention which minotaur hit it was. The slam? The popping out of the ground? The autoattack? Like I said, not nearly enough information and possibly not relevant to the situation depending on the syndicate member that killed him.
Last edited by Nubatron on May 30, 2020, 12:12:13 PM
"
Nubatron wrote:
You're quoting individual parts of what I said and missing the point. There is a big difference between Minotaur on a boring map, and minotaur in a triple extra damage, etc. map. No build should live the big slam by the minotaur in a juiced map (though some builds do which I think is a mistake...some things in the game that telegraphed should be a one-shot). He doesn't even mention which minotaur hit it was. The slam? The popping out of the ground? The autoattack? Like I said, not nearly enough information and possibly not relevant to the situation depending on the syndicate member that killed him.


What I quote really has nothing to do with the discussion. I just trimmed parts of it off to make the post look less obnoxious. If you look above I explain why it's reasonable that op can't give a whole lot of detail about the syndicate deaths to begin with and why I think they're bs.

I just think it's silly that you think minotaur helps evasion/dodge builds just because he has part of his damage converted to lightning. Everyone can mitigate that lightning portion just as good so there's no special treatment in favor of raiders. It's also irrelevant what attack op survived because the boss's autottacks is the hardest hitting move he does. Straight from the poedb that has this boss datamined, his autoattacks are the baseline damage in his profile, the slam only does 50% of his baseline damage, the burrow does 60%. Unless you think he's somehow dodging all of the autoattacks but is eating all of the much more telegraphed moves I think it's fair to say op can tank any single hit.
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yamface wrote:
"
Nubatron wrote:
You're quoting individual parts of what I said and missing the point. There is a big difference between Minotaur on a boring map, and minotaur in a triple extra damage, etc. map. No build should live the big slam by the minotaur in a juiced map (though some builds do which I think is a mistake...some things in the game that telegraphed should be a one-shot). He doesn't even mention which minotaur hit it was. The slam? The popping out of the ground? The autoattack? Like I said, not nearly enough information and possibly not relevant to the situation depending on the syndicate member that killed him.


What I quote really has nothing to do with the discussion. I just trimmed parts of it off to make the post look less obnoxious. If you look above I explain why it's reasonable that op can't give a whole lot of detail about the syndicate deaths to begin with and why I think they're bs.

I just think it's silly that you think minotaur helps evasion/dodge builds just because he has part of his damage converted to lightning. Everyone can mitigate that lightning portion just as good so there's no special treatment in favor of raiders. It's also irrelevant what attack op survived because the boss's autottacks is the hardest hitting move he does. Straight from the poedb that has this boss datamined, his autoattacks are the baseline damage in his profile, the slam only does 50% of his baseline damage, the burrow does 60%. Unless you think he's somehow dodging all of the autoattacks but is eating all of the much more telegraphed moves I think it's fair to say op can tank any single hit.


Evasion and dodge provide no benefit when you are hit (short of critical hits which evasion does help with). The easiest way to mitigate physical damage on the right side of the tree is damage conversion. The minotaur does part of that conversion for you. This feels basic. Not sure I can dumb it down more.

And to further help you out here, the core of my argument was that it may or may not have any application to the discussion depending on the syndicate member.
Last edited by Nubatron on May 30, 2020, 2:55:57 PM
The one thing I really love is that a lot of the Syndicate stuff appears to 1 shot the cycloners and like minded people. XD
Last edited by Greensage1531 on May 30, 2020, 3:00:33 PM
It perhaps bears mentioning that if your character wants to avoid the sydicate, you can do just that by having any other master active. Whether by choosing a mission, having a sextant or a scarab, the sydicate assholes will leave you alone.

Some of my characters can crush syndicate encounters (as mentioned, it's no surprise that they tend to have high/maxed chaos res), same can't. Plan accordingly.
Last edited by TheBagman on May 30, 2020, 3:01:12 PM
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Last edited by Blubbey on Apr 12, 2021, 7:12:42 PM
"
Nubatron wrote:
Evasion and dodge provide no benefit when you are hit (short of critical hits which evasion does help with). The easiest way to mitigate physical damage on the right side of the tree is damage conversion. The minotaur does part of that conversion for you. This feels basic. Not sure I can dumb it down more.

And to further help you out here, the core of my argument was that it may or may not have any application to the discussion depending on the syndicate member.


Repeat after me:

Elemental damage does not help raiders any more than any other class in the game. They are still the worst archetype to deal with minotaur
"
yamface wrote:
"
Nubatron wrote:
Evasion and dodge provide no benefit when you are hit (short of critical hits which evasion does help with). The easiest way to mitigate physical damage on the right side of the tree is damage conversion. The minotaur does part of that conversion for you. This feels basic. Not sure I can dumb it down more.

And to further help you out here, the core of my argument was that it may or may not have any application to the discussion depending on the syndicate member.


Repeat after me:

Elemental damage does not help raiders any more than any other class in the game. They are still the worst archetype to deal with minotaur


Repeat after me, damage conversion is the easiest way to mitigate physical damage on the right side of the tree.

I don't care whether they are the best or worst. You're deviating from the point anyway. Until they actually provide more information, it's a useless point in supporting his argument about syndicate.
Last edited by Nubatron on May 30, 2020, 7:57:26 PM
Is anyone else actually reading this? This can't be a serious conversation...

It's one thing if the raider himself has a built in damage conversion taken. But he doesn't. It's the boss. There is no difference between the minotaur now and a minotaur that does slightly less damage but is full physical. The boss was designed like this to damage everyone equally the same types, and equally brutally. Being on the right side of the tree is completely irrelevant.

Now, I don't really like repeating myself about the syndicate ordeal, so I won't. All I'm going to say is if he died to tora or aisling, then it was because of his chaos res. But this doesn't really detract from what bothered me the most in this thread, which was this wonky reasoning about minotaurs and raiders.

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