Being killed by something you cannot see is not challenging.

"

Fruz wrote:

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

I.e., off-screening, on-screen vomit, etc. is not an issue in this game, ever.

"Git gud, bois. It's your fault if you don't know what killed you."

I do think this is what Nomancs is claiming, unironically.

I don't think that it's genuine anymore though.
Oh well, I guess I should just update my ignore list.

Could be trolling, could be cluelessness, or could be trying (and failing) to establish one's own superiority over everyone else.

#3 gets my vote, since anyone who has been around since beta MUST know that off-screen deaths DO happen (though they don't happen as often as people claim), and anyone who has spent any time on the forums knows that poor visibility of deadly effects is a perrennial complaint.

The former is a fact. The latter is an opinion, not a fact, but it's an extremely popular one, and for good reason. "You should have built a beefier character," though often good advice, != "That thing which killed you was completely visible."

Not to put too fine a point on it, but one of the reasons for needing beefier (and layered) defenses is to protect yourself against things you cannot see.

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

"

Fruz wrote:

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

I.e., off-screening, on-screen vomit, etc. is not an issue in this game, ever.

"Git gud, bois. It's your fault if you don't know what killed you."

I do think this is what Nomancs is claiming, unironically.

I don't think that it's genuine anymore though.
Oh well, I guess I should just update my ignore list.

Could be trolling, could be cluelessness, or could be trying (and failing) to establish one's own superiority over everyone else.

#3 gets my vote, since anyone who has been around since beta MUST know that off-screen deaths DO happen (though they don't happen as often as people claim), and anyone who has spent any time on the forums knows that poor visibility of deadly effects is a perrennial complaint.

The former is a fact. The latter is an opinion, not a fact, but it's an extremely popular one, and for good reason. "You should have built a beefier character," though often good advice, != "That thing which killed you was completely visible."

Not to put too fine a point on it, but one of the reasons for needing beefier (and layered) defenses is to protect yourself against things you cannot see.

"A Culture based on superstitions will do worse than one based on scientific knowledge and rational thoughts"
It is easier to blame your failures on hackers/cheaters/invisible offscreens/"stupid game" than start to learn.
I never died to invisible things for a reason - because they don't exist. What exist is your lack of understanding game mechanics. You lack game experience - it is in your stats. You have literaly no game knowledge (go and argue with your stats, but numbers there will not change). Maybe if you would spend more time playing than whining on forum, you would get it.


I already wrote:
I don't care if you ignore me. I don't have mystical invisible things that kill me. It is you who blame "stupid game" for not understanding its mechanics.

"

Nomancs wrote:

I never died to invisible things for a reason - because they don't exist.

That's kinda true and at the same time it's not. There aren't any deadly effects in the game that don't have some sort of telegraph, so yeah they aren't generally invisible. However, their visibility is so bad sometimes that it's hard/impossible to see them depending on the situation meaning they are invisible to the player.

Basic example. Spectral Revenant CE effects. Yes, they have a tiny little ground animation before they go off. But actually seeing them is pretty tough in some maps, even without any other skill effects/Monsters on screen. For example in any map with Belly of the Beast tileset. The animation has pretty much the same color as the ground it happens on. If you know what to look for and intensely scan for it all the time you might be able to notice the effect as long as there is nothing else going on. Seeing it during a fight when your skill effects cause fireworks on screen an monsters are everywhere is pretty much impossible.

Obviously if you know about them you can alter your way of playing/building to somehow circumvent the fact that you won't be able to see and dodge them in the midst of battle, so yes learning mechanics can help you here, but it doesn't change the fact that you have to find workarounds for bad visibility of effects.

Imo the worst thing about this game is the complete lack of information. If you know what revenants are, how they look and that they have a deadly CE ability you can figure the whole thing out and play accordingly. But I honestly don't think anyone will ever figure this shit out by himself, without forums/reddit. The ability isn't noticeable unless you specifically look for it and even if you managed to notice it somehow and relate it to you dying you still wouldn't know which one of the dozens of monsters you had on the screen caused it. Some of the most deadly shit in this game is literally impossible to figure out within the game, you need external sources of information, and I don't even mean the wiki, you won't find stuff like that in there, I mean stumbling upon it by accident in forums/reddit. Because if you don't already know that revenants cause that shit, you couldn't even google for it or at least it would be tough to find since revenants aren't the only case with this problem. There is a bunch of them. And almost all of them are on death effects. The saying that dead monsters are more dangerous than living once in this game is a sad truth.

Nomancs:

1. Ignoring stated points? Check.

2. Strawman arguments and putting words in the mouths of others? Double check.

3. An assertion that one's own experience trumps that of every other player? Check.

4. Ad hominems? Check.

5. Accusations of whining despite the fact this is a feedback forum? Check.

6. Accusations of arrogance despite all of the above? Check.

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

Nomancs:

1. Ignoring stated points? Check. - because they're false, based on lack of knowledge.

2. Strawman arguments and putting words in the mouths of others? Double check. - if only you had any arguments...

3. An assertion that one's own experience trumps that of every other player? Check. - check your stats, it isn't assertion, it is a fact

4. Ad hominems? Check. - If you would be smarter you would noticed ad personam

5. Accusations of whining despite the fact this is a feedback forum? Check. - Observation, not accusation, and also a fact.

6. Accusations of arrogance despite all of the above? Check. - Observation, not accusation, and also a fact because you don't know much about the game.

What could I expect from someone who is using argumentum ad populum and petitio principi? You have 0 arguments and 0 knowledge to support your "See thread title." topic, really constructive.

Yes, i do ignore your points because they're false/made up. You don't understand something and you made ideology for it, blaming it upon game.
"it is not my fault it is "stupid game"" - how mature.

http://rantsofthenerd.blogspot.com/2012/03/noob-mentality.html

"

Noobs have no desire to learn. They often display this through asking stupid questions they should be able to figure out themselves just through common sense, or reading the instruction manual. If one corrects a noob, the response is often outrage or defensiveness.

Oh and another funny one :

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/ebqjed/goratha_rip_ssf_hc_metamorph/

You literally cannot see half of the DD animation because the loot is simply hiding it, making dodging it pretty much impossible.

This isn't a bug.
This isn't something that GGG is going to change either imo.
This is being triggered by an offscreen totem (because every experienced player knows very well that DD totem's range is absolutely disgusting).



And what is the "best" part of this (related to this thread) ? DD got changed somewhat recently, it did not have an animation before, meaning that such a situation back then would have meant instant death, the only counter play being making sure that there isn't any DD totem offscreen before killing the boss.

That would have been literally invisible, completely, that's how it used to be.


so .... never been invisible effects outside of bugs ?
RIIIIGHT

"

Fruz wrote:

Oh and another funny one :

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/ebqjed/goratha_rip_ssf_hc_metamorph/

You literally cannot see half of the DD animation because the loot is simply hiding it, making dodging it pretty much impossible.

This isn't a bug.
This isn't something that GGG is going to change either imo.
This is being triggered by an offscreen totem (because every experienced player knows very well that DD totem's range is absolutely disgusting).



And what is the "best" part of this (related to this thread) ? DD got changed somewhat recently, it did not have an animation before, meaning that such a situation back then would have meant instant death, the only counter play being making sure that there isn't any DD totem offscreen before killing the boss.

That would have been literally invisible, completely, that's how it used to be.


so .... never been invisible effects outside of bugs ?
RIIIIGHT

That was SO clearly telegraphed I am surprised you can't see it. Really, you prove my point all the time. You only watch streams and short vids and don't play the game, this is why you have no idea what is happening on the screen. It is so visible!

Now I'm 100% sure you have no idea what are you talking about.

"

Nomancs wrote:

[more of the same]

No, I meant ad hominem. Look it up. Though it's nice to know that I would use your words instead of my own if I "would be smarter." Weren't you championing humility just a few posts back? Oh, there it is. I see you even underlined it:

"

Nomancs wrote:

please, a little bit humility

(Protip: If you are going to accuse people of not being smart and don't want to be laughed at when doing so, it's generally a good idea to double-check that the accusation itself doesn't have grammar mistakes. This is true even if English isn't your first language.)

Whoops, there it is again:

"

Nomancs wrote:

A little bit of humility.

Also, did you notice that the words "stupid game," something you accused me of saying not once but twice, never even once occurred in any of my posts? Do you understand that mischaracterizing others to bolster your own argument is intellectually dishonest?

Regardless, I rest my case with the two previous posts, and stand by every single statement in them. I'll let you read them again rather than reiterate them here.

You obviously put a great deal of effort into trying to prove to everyone around you that you are superior. Put even half of that effort into being civil when talking to people whose opinions you disagree with and you might actually be able to have an interesting conversation with me or the others in this thread.

Unless and until you can deign to do that, I'm not wasting any more time on you, and I suspect others won't either.

Nomancs, anticipating and seeing are two different things.

Awareness and knowledge can allow you to anticipate things, but that doesn't mean they aren't hidden visually.

Metamorph is a good example of this since you can sellect the types of attacks a monster will use. If you know the attacks and see a black blob but know there are three different attacks hidden in that visual representation your not seeing it but anticipating it and behaving accordingly.

Just like a map with totems has DD totems in them and a map with demons can have stygian revenants in them, both create awareness of the potentially hidden visual DD effects, but that isn't "seeing" visually.

OP's point stands, game has a tremendous amount of visual vomit and poor visual cue's in the absence of that awareness and developed anticipation.

Peace,

-Boem-

"

Boem wrote:

Awareness and knowledge can allow you to anticipate things, but that doesn't mean they aren't hidden visually.

Huh, this was so bloody obvious that I didn't even think to mention it lol.

Awareness and knowledge also are not enough to make something acceptable from a game design standpoint (another obvious thing, I know, but at this point ...)