Bait-and-switch scams are very easy to minimise, so why haven't you done this already, GGG?

"
Johny_Snow wrote:
Ok, so victim blaming it is, the victims should improve themselves instead, the game should not strive to improve itself.

Yeah drugdealers should be allowed to walk the streets because people are just stupid if they buy their drugs.
"
reprot9y wrote:
"
Johny_Snow wrote:
Ok, so victim blaming it is, the victims should improve themselves instead, the game should not strive to improve itself.

Yeah drugdealers should be allowed to walk the streets because people are just stupid if they buy their drugs.

its been proven that punishing drugdealers is not an efficient way of fighting with usage of drugs. instead curing drug users has been proven to be a successful way to deal with that problem. so educating new players in this matter looks like a better solution to me. or letting them learn the lesson hard way in this case.
Trust your mind and strengthen your abilities!
"
MrsDeath_ wrote:
its been proven that punishing drugdealers is not an efficient way of fighting with usage of drugs. instead curing drug users has been proven to be a successful way to deal with that problem. so educating new players in this matter looks like a better solution to me. or letting them learn the lesson hard way in this case.

Funny that, giving the user a cue that drugs are dangerous is kinda exactly what we're talking about here.

You know that episode where Homer starts doing home safety and sticks cheer gloves on all the six hands of Apu's statue of Shiva to prevent accidental pokings? Well, as surprising as that may turn out to some, that isn't what we're talking about here, we're talking about hanging the sign 'watch your peepers' around its neck.
Есть один путь - наверх!

◄[www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux]►
◄[www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1]►
Last edited by raics on Jul 12, 2019, 5:53:00 AM
"
raics wrote:
"
MrsDeath_ wrote:
its been proven that punishing drugdealers is not an efficient way of fighting with usage of drugs. instead curing drug users has been proven to be a successful way to deal with that problem. so educating new players in this matter looks like a better solution to me. or letting them learn the lesson hard way in this case.

Funny that, giving the user a cue that drugs are dangerous is kinda exactly what we're talking about here.

You know that episode where Homer starts doing home safety and sticks cheer gloves on all the six hands of Apu's statue of Shiva to prevent accidental pokings? Well, as surprising as that may turn out to some, that isn't what we're talking about here, we're talking about hanging the sign 'watch your peepers' around its neck.

that sounds like a good analogy. i need to watch that episode to understand that reference tho ^^
yea curing drug problem is not exactly the right comparison here.
Trust your mind and strengthen your abilities!
"
Johny_Snow wrote:
Ok, so victim blaming it is, the victims should improve themselves instead, the game should not strive to improve itself.


Where are you getting this from? There is a problem and we require a realistic and effective solution to it. Blame is irrelevant.
Carry on my waypoint son, there'll be peace when maps are done.
Lay your portal gem to rest, don't you die no more.

'Cause it's a bitter sweet symphony this league.
Try to make maps meet, you're a slave to the meta, then you leave.
"
reprot9y wrote:
"
Johny_Snow wrote:
Ok, so victim blaming it is, the victims should improve themselves instead, the game should not strive to improve itself.

Yeah drugdealers should be allowed to walk the streets because people are just stupid if they buy their drugs.


I would invite you to be a little bit more open minded.

If you read literally any posts in this thread, you would know not a single person on either side actually wants scammers around. I want them gone as much as the next guy. It's not just a bad analogy, it's also false and misses the point entirely.

It's not about who's fault is it. Please stop trying to make it seem like that is what is being said here.


Something happened. In this case a scam. In order for us to properly assess the situation and apply an effective and fitting solution, we need to clearly identify the source of the issue, which means asking questions of which some will be quite confronting.

Give you a real life example:
Someone broke into your house and you call the cops when you find out. They come over and you know what the first thing is that they may ask you? "Did you at any point invite this person into your house?" Stupid question? It's funny, many comedians use this for a quick laugh, but it's not stupid.

If they got in through the window, the next one could be "Was the window closed at the time?" Again, you may think it's a stupid question, but how do you know it wasn't open unless you ask?


These officers aren't blaming the victim either by asking these questions, they are just doing their job making a thorough assessment of the situation, based on facts instead of assumptions.

The reason you see so many victim blaming posts here is because it's so easy on PoE to assess the situation. You can't get scamemd unless you make a mistake, be it from lack of focus, tired, drunk, distracted, lazy or whatever reason it may have. As clearly stated by multiple people in this thread before, the current mechanics in place already facilitate secure trading.

Charan is putting in the effort to go beyond that, to make it even more obvious that someone is trying to scam you, which is a noble gesture. Imo, the more barriers you put in between, the more laid back people will approach trade and the more scams you will see again, which I believe was the point Boem was making earlier.


Side note: I would hope that critical feedback would be appreciated, but more and more do I see thread creators run their threads like a dictatorship, which is very concerning to witness. In any case, that's just a personal off-topic observation.
Carry on my waypoint son, there'll be peace when maps are done.
Lay your portal gem to rest, don't you die no more.

'Cause it's a bitter sweet symphony this league.
Try to make maps meet, you're a slave to the meta, then you leave.
Last edited by Xavathos on Jul 12, 2019, 6:45:51 AM
Its not a realistic solution simply because it relies completely on this chain of events - newbie starts the game, newbie gets scammed, newbie learns their lesson and never gets scammed again. It is possible even for experienced players to slip up in a trading system where you need to memorize everything from a glimpse. Hence why a solution which will make checking items/links more comfortable will result in less scamming while having the "good faith" that every scammed person will never ever get scammed again is unreliable.
Last edited by Johny_Snow on Jul 12, 2019, 6:48:45 AM
"
Xavathos wrote:
Charan is putting in the effort to go beyond that, to make it even more obvious that someone is trying to scam you, which is a noble gesture. Imo, the more barriers you put in between, the more laid back people will approach trade and the more scams you will see again, which I think was the point Boem was making earlier.

Do you know why we have rear-view mirrors? That's because people realized that turning your head while driving or sticking it out of the window to look back is 1. dangerous and 2. a hassle that many don't bother with despite being aware of very serious consequences. So, what do you do then? Give people an easier way to see they're about to make a mistake, nobody here suggests locking the steering wheel if the car detects you didn't turn your head.

One of the staples of making a good interface is giving the user all the information it needs to make the decision, and the more serious the consequences are and the more often you have to to make the decision, the clearer the signs have to be. In, say, power plant control centers you do get verbose alerts, but, you also have red and green lights, not because people are dumb or can't read, that's because redundancies and cursory checks are a thing.

If your interface doesn't have visual cues in places where they could help the user, you didn't make a hardcore, strong, independent interface, you made a bad interface.
Есть один путь - наверх!

◄[www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux]►
◄[www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1]►
"
Johny_Snow wrote:
Its not a realistic solution simply because it relies completely on this chain of events - newbie starts the game, newbie gets scammed, newbie learns their lesson and never gets scammed again. It is possible even for experienced players to slip up in a trading system where you need to memorize everything from a glimpse. Hence why a solution which will make checking items/links more comfortable will result in less scamming while having the "good faith" that every scammed person will never ever get scammed again is unreliable.


Except newbie wouldn't get scammed if newbie was aware that scams are a thing and you need to pay attention when trading with others.

I mean, apart from the fact that this is common sense, we would put in extra effort to make it even more obvious, much like what Charan is suggesting, but instead of relying on yet more technology to mitigate human error (or being placid), I would urge the human players to improve themselves. Is that such a horrible thing?
Carry on my waypoint son, there'll be peace when maps are done.
Lay your portal gem to rest, don't you die no more.

'Cause it's a bitter sweet symphony this league.
Try to make maps meet, you're a slave to the meta, then you leave.
Why should someone who wants to try a new game make a research into scamming? Why should they expect to get lied to and taken advantage of? Which game does this? Should GGG put one big red flag every time you install the game which says "always check your trades because others will try to scam you and we wont bother doing anything to help you in the matter. Making a mistake is on you" Thats some great marketing, isn't it?

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