Log in, look at empty sulphite bar... log out.

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Fruz wrote:

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jables wrote:

Honestly, it would probably be better just to get rid of sulphite, have have Niko allow you entrance into the mine in every map. This would fix most of the issues people have with the league. It would also bring the content closer to other leagues where you do a map, and the league content was accessible within the map.

And then run a white beach in 30 sec, to get to delve in a level 83 area ?

This would be what it would become if not for the other challenges that require mapping.

Wouldn't be too hard to set restrictions for the depth level compared to the map your running. Pretty simple concept to have the depth your limited to be the same or near the same as the monster level of the map your running. Give it a +3 or +4 variance so your not forced to sustain t16 maps to do monster lvl 83 delves.

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jables wrote:

Wouldn't be too hard to set restrictions for the depth level compared to the map your running. Pretty simple concept to have the depth your limited to be the same or near the same as the monster level of the map your running. Give it a +3 or +4 variance so your not forced to sustain t16 maps to do monster lvl 83 delves.

So now you would remove all possibility of running deeper delve while completely omitting half of the azurite upgrades ( at lest until depth 200 ).


"Variance" ? You would not let the player being able to choose the depths ?
So somebody delving at 600+ would be arbitrarily set back to above 250 depending on the RNG ?

Or did I misunderstand you ?


You might be thinking that it's a simple concept, but all its implication and its impact on the big picture are a quite different story imo.
Plus, how would that be consistent ?
Niko:
" - Hey, I can allow to delve that deep this time because GGG does not want you to go too fast"

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Fruz wrote:

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jables wrote:

Wouldn't be too hard to set restrictions for the depth level compared to the map your running. Pretty simple concept to have the depth your limited to be the same or near the same as the monster level of the map your running. Give it a +3 or +4 variance so your not forced to sustain t16 maps to do monster lvl 83 delves.

So now you would remove all possibility of running deeper delve while completely omitting half of the azurite upgrades ( at lest until depth 200 ).


"Variance" ? You would not let the player being able to choose the depths ?
So somebody delving at 600+ would be arbitrarily set back to above 250 depending on the RNG ?

Or did I misunderstand you ?

Lol, what are you getting at? As far as I know, the max monster level in delves are 83, are they not? It is simple, if your running T12, T13, T14, T15, or T16 you can run any depth you want.

Also, I am just proposing ideas to help the situation. It doesn't have to be perfect, that's what the "experts" at GGG are for. They can decide the mathematics, proportions and all that. The current state of delve is not fun, when I am looking at an empty bar of sulphite and dreading the 2-3 hours of mapping to max it.

Variance beeing a technical term specific to statistics ....
But English isn't my native language, there could be other correct uses for it, I'm not too sure.


So you want to allow people to run content at up to 4 levels higher than the current map they are running, just like that ( because screw consistency regarding Niko I guess ) ?

-> Run a t10 map, and get access to potentially unmoded t14 content for free, unmoded yet still likely rewarding.
This would remove most of the incentive to running the highest maps then, and push even more the "run a shaped t6 map over and over again" while making the grind to 100 even easier.

Plus it would make people people run the low level areas of the story line (with reseting instances, likely) so that they can run lower level delves in order to look for fossils, or just to get a "clear" place to start for they reroll .... I don't think anybody would actually like that idea.
You could also allow them to run any higher depth area, but then you would get to delve only once at low level per map ... which is not ideal either.


So yes, I maintain :
You might be thinking that it's a simple concept, but all its implication and its impact on the big picture are a quite different story.

Solutions that do seem simple at fist sight are rarely good ones, in the context of such a complex system (imho).

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jables wrote:

The current state of delve is not fun

Very subjective notion, for me it's fun at the moment, at depth ~200, one of the best leagues so far.

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Fruz wrote:

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jables wrote:

The current state of delve is not fun

Very subjective notion, for me it's fun at the moment, at depth ~200, one of the best leagues so far.

The deeper you get, the worse your delving to mapping ratio will be. Theoretically if you keep raising your map tier so that they're the same level as your delves, you'll keep getting the same amount of delves. But then you hit tier 16 (if you can sustain it) and your delves keep getting more and more expensive, without access to better maps to give you more sulphite.

But more to the point, why are we gating delving behind mapping anyway? Why is sulphite even a thing? Mapping is about 10x as rewarding as delving, per unit time (assuming you do the things that make it rewarding - elder blob, sextants, etc), so there's no risk of delves replacing maps for people looking for loot. But people wanting to grind that new end game - just let them, straight up. Tune down the drops of currency orbs in delves if you're worried about it causing inflation (but honestly I doubt it would). Or hell, put a currency sink in the delves for all I care, just let me run it.

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magicrectangle wrote:

The deeper you get, the worse your delving to mapping ratio will be. Theoretically if you keep raising your map tier so that they're the same level as your delves, you'll keep getting the same amount of delves. But then you hit tier 16 (if you can sustain it) and your delves keep getting more and more expensive, without access to better maps to give you more sulphite.

I am aware, I only want to get to 300 for the challenge, I don't see any point getting beyond that, I don't consider "I one shot you before you one shot me" ( that it eventually becomes ) a fun gameplay, this is not Counter Strike.


About the second part of your message .... I just think that it's just not the way GGG designed it, and it was never the way GGG wanted it to be to begin with.
Their delve announcement was just pretty dishonest, missleading.

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Fruz wrote:

I am aware, I only want to get to 300 for the challenge, I don't see any point getting beyond that, I don't consider "I one shot you before you one shot me" ( that it eventually becomes ) a fun gameplay, this is not Counter Strike.

I don't consider the one shot thing very cool either, which is why I rolled up a nebuloch jugg, so I could tank. I'm sure that will stop working eventually, but it has worked up to 370, even in zones with crit + second damage mod. I've seen the videos of the 2000+ people getting one-shot non-stop, but I'm not ever going to get THAT deep.

As for reason to go deeper, 300 isn't the only challenge. There's the delve boss related challenges, and delve bosses are supposedly more common the deeper you go. So far I've encountered only the grand architect in my journeys to my current depth, so I'm hoping to find the other bosses deeper in.

And yes, I'm aware that I could do the taxi nonsense, but that's dumb.

Also seeing how deep you can go was sort of the advertised point of the league, so I'd like to see how deep I can go. But obviously sulphite limits me in that, not how I built or played my character.

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magicrectangle wrote:

As for reason to go deeper, 300 isn't the only challenge. There's the delve boss related challenges, and delve bosses are supposedly more common the deeper you go.

Oh really ? is that actually a thing ?
I had not considered that ....

I got two city bosses very close to eachother around depth 90~100 I think.
Still one left undone, I will use it to get my last missing objective regarding him.

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magicrectangle wrote:

Also seeing how deep you can go was sort of the advertised point of the league, so I'd like to see how deep I can go. But obviously sulphite limits me in that, not how I built or played my character.

It was, GGG fucked up their communication on that one, clearly.
Unless they are fine with being dishonest, which I hope they aren't.

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Fruz wrote:

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magicrectangle wrote:

As for reason to go deeper, 300 isn't the only challenge. There's the delve boss related challenges, and delve bosses are supposedly more common the deeper you go.

Oh really ? is that actually a thing ?
I had not considered that ....

I say supposedly because I haven't seen an actual GGG post confirming it. A lot of people on r/pathofexile seem to think so, for whatever that's worth.

What is confirmed is that each boss has a minimum depth. The vaal one shows up pretty early, the abyss one not until later, and the primeval one (crystal king) doesn't show up until pretty deep (I don't remember exactly, something like 250ish).

I guess the holy grail is to spawn him as close to the minimum depth as possible, without any damage mods, and then just sell taxis until you're swimming in money. A dumber system for "challenges" I could not have devised if I'd been specifically trying. I mean buying challenges has always been pretty dumb, but this league takes it to the next level of idiotic.

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magicrectangle wrote:

I guess the holy grail is to spawn him as close to the minimum depth as possible, without any damage mods, and then just sell taxis until you're swimming in money. A dumber system for "challenges" I could not have devised if I'd been specifically trying. I mean buying challenges has always been pretty dumb, but this league takes it to the next level of idiotic.

So it seems indeed.
I play SSF, so this does not concern me but .... well, it seems pretty dumb indeed.
I'm going to be looking for primeval ruins from depths 220, it seems to be the minimum for it.