Why does trade suck so hard?

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Bone2flesh wrote:

Now if they introduce any kind of automation than people like you would flood the market with crap that is not even worth looking trough. Eventually it will be norm and the market will be filled WITH every single item anyone finds because they have no clue if it's worth something or not. No thank you. Never!

Please... Your assumption isn't fact. You just assume crap will come in faster than it can be sold. I personal would vendor any crap that doesn't sell right away. As it takes up valuable inventory space. But I don't mind giving people. Who want crap; especially latter in the league; an actual chance to get it.

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Bone2flesh wrote:

Trade as it is right now is perfect: it makes you have to make some choices and it's a good element of the game if you enjoy it. If you don't like trading and find it a chore play SSF but don't ask for it to be modified to cater to your personal needs. Problem solved.

And than literally your next comment...

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Bone2flesh wrote:

Trade is not perfect because nothing in this world is. However it is just fine and suitable for POE as it is. There have been MAJOR improvements over the years and the demand for a more complex system has been addressed clearly in the Trade Manifesto. People simply refuse to get it trough their thick skulls and understand the reasoning behind the decision.

And than...

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Bone2flesh wrote:

I never stated the trade system is a genius system. It just is what it is and that is more than enough anyone needs to play the game to it's fullest. Hell some people don't use it at all and do just fine: SSF.

Boy one digresses fast. If by major you mean not having to created trade post in the forums... To a third party website. To them basically coping someone else's work. Than what you see as major. I see is a lack of any inspiration at all. It has only ever been damage control. To make it more tolerable. Nothing in it says good design to me. It is only a minimum effort to make it functional. With every once in a while an update to make it less of a headache. And that has taken them years. Nothing about that says major to me.

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Bone2flesh wrote:

If you choose to be a lab runner that is personal choice and you should learn to live with the downside of trading less. In essence you get a loot explosion at the end so simply list valuable items only and ask the person to wait until after.

No!!! Lab is a hardcore mechanic forced on everyone who wants ascendancy points. Weather you actually like it or not. It has no respect in-regards to weather players like it or not. It is just another thing added to the game because some dev thought it was cool. It had and still doesn't consider any other aspect of the game. Such as trade. Players are just expect to forgo such interactions while doing it. The lab in my opinion is just another way in which GGG disrespects player choice.

And is a sorry attempt to mimic D3 greater rifts. Just like tormented spirits are a crappy copy cat of D3's goblins. While those things made D3 better. The lab has no place in POE. And doesn't fit in with the current portal system. Just like trade doesn't. They are both poorly thought out.

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Bone2flesh wrote:

Why would you be able to buy high usage orbs from vendors? To make them trivial? No thank you.

Being able to buy high value orbs from the vendor doesn't mean it will make them trivial. They could always make them ridiculously overpriced. Like say 5x their value in trade. So people who don't want to trade don't have too. You just assume like usual any change will bad.

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Bone2flesh wrote:

Current system will last until another ARPG introduces revolutionary game mechanics and the same dark style POE has. Considering how D3 is D4 will fail to do that at least in looks and feel of the game. Also you really think Blizzard will put in an AH after the D3 AH success. Those people are business men. They learn from mistakes even if the stupid sheep players refuse too.

WTF are you smoking? D4 isn't a thing. Maybe it will be in the future. And why the hell does it have to be a new ARPG? Why can't it be an existing one. Through patches?

The AH in D3 failed because D3 failed. If the game is crap you can't blame it one thing that made it playable. They removed the AH because people spent more time looking at it than playing the game. Because the game wasn't worth playing. Blizzard's bandaid fix was to remove the AH. Instead of fixing the real issues in D3. It's not like D3's player base jumped up the day it was removed. No on the contrary it kept going down until the expansion came out. I don't blame blizzard for that choice. But hell I defiantly don't blame the auction house for it.

You lack the understanding of why things failed. And you base your highpothesis on half truths and major over assumptions.

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Bone2flesh wrote:

Wolcen while it looks nice and interesting it's on early alpha access for ages now. I have little hope for it and they are just milking people for money. It will stay in that state for years. The dam game is not even close to done and you dream of an AH and fancy trading system. Really?

And WTF is wrong with people dreaming about better things? It is the start to actually getting better things. If there is a will there is a way. Maybe you just hate change. Maybe it's your lack of the ability to image anything outside of what you already know. But why do you shut people down? Is it simply because you think you know better? Your not really making any sound arguments here.

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Bone2flesh wrote:

The reality is that an ARPG simply does not need a complex trading system to be successful. that is the last place the focus should be to make it succeed. The example is in front of you: POE. I don't see many players quitting the game because of the "difficult" trading. I only see some vocal minority restarting the same tread over and over again.

Nah the reality is no ARPG has a good or complex trading system. So there is no need for GGG to compete in that area. It doesn't mean that it won't make an ARPG more competitive. Again your argument is only based off how things currently are. Just because one person/company failed. Doesn't mean another will not. D3 failed because it's end game was unplayable for most people. So they resorted to the AH to make it possible. And lead to it's removal. It had nothing to do with the AH being bad.

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Bone2flesh wrote:

If you think the forum users are an indication of what the actual player base wants you are sorely mistaken. This is a minority and even in this small sample most people disagree with an AH idea. Mostly because with some insight and knowledge you can realise it would destroy the item market.

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Bone2flesh wrote:

I would really not think a few forum users can be categorized as "everyone". And for each person criticizing you have one like me defending. So we are at a stale mate.

If you think the forum users are no indication of what the players want than you are even more mistaken. While they may not be the majority of people. Hell they may even be a very small %. But it is still feedback from a % of players. And GGG/you would be stupid to ignore them. At least figure out why people say what they say before you dump on them like you have.

And your assumption of it destroying the market is laughable to me. You have 0 proof of that. You may believe it. And you may be right. But I highly doubt it. Your lack of vision and understand of why D3's AH failed for example. Lead me to believe you don't know how to properly analyze things as they are.

Maybe OP is really a bucket he wrote an entire essay to counter someone no wonder nobody takes him seriously.

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FG_Glory56 wrote:

Maybe OP is really a bucket he wrote an entire essay to counter someone no wonder nobody takes him seriously.

Im amazed that anyone would even bother reading the War and Peace edition of the weekly "Trade sucks WAAAAAAAH" thread.

But if you can buy maps to access end game content easily instead of spending 10+ minutes whispering sellers who dont respond, it would destroy the game!!!

(you have to be seriously naive to believe this)

SSF killed the game mark my words!

@TheLockedGuy CBA to quote all that shizzle but I will reply to a few points.

Trying to point out contradictions in my comments. While it may seem so taken literally in the sense of the word in context they have no issue and they are argumentative techniques. Quite common when trying to convince someone of the point you make. So nice try but no.

Do not twist my words or the context on the LAB matter. I am clearly stating "LAB Runner"> that means a person who has built specifically to run LAB over and over for profit: chests runs and helm enchants. If you know what the lab is and build for it YOU HAVE NO GROUNDS to complain you can't trade while in lab.

The lab may not be fun for everyone BUT it's only 4 times you have to do it EVER on any character. the first 3 being a joke and the 4th totally not mandatory for a long time. So you are full of it.

How would lab be a D3 GR? That's just crazy talk. The lab fits very well in POE it has lore background and even lore writings explaining it. it first the ascendancy theme very well. you just don't like it. Well tough luck.

D3 failed because of the AH. I loved the original release. The hard D3. but AH and people going crazy for items and cash etc ruined the economy because all people did is stay and snipe items. I should know I made around 5000$ out of it. trust me i know more about D3 and how the AH worked and the impact it had on the game than you do. Every single person I know that played D3 with the AH and does not play anymore said that is the reason they quit.

No ARPG has or had a complex trading system. Proving clearly they do not need one to succeed. WHY? Why would a business take the risk of doing that? It's stupid. If it's not broken don't try to fix it. Words to live by. Thanks for making my case for me.

I'm going out for drinks.

Peace.

I wouldn't say POE needs an AH.. but it would be nice to have the current trade system implemented in game rather than having to use a web browser.

AH is coming! Chris confirmed

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SilentStorm625 wrote:

AH is coming! Chris confirmed

Lies.

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Bone2flesh wrote:

D3 failed because of the AH.

If that's true, why D3 didnt got popularity BOOM after removing AH from it? The answer is simple - D3 failed NOT because of AH, so after AH gone, it still remained plain boring game, that's it.

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Bone2flesh wrote:

I loved the original release. The hard D3. but AH and people going crazy for items and cash etc ruined the economy because all people did is stay and snipe items. I should know I made around 5000$ out of it. trust me i know more about D3 and how the AH worked and the impact it had on the game than you do. Every single person I know that played D3 with the AH and does not play anymore said that is the reason they quit.

Did all those "leavers" returned to D3 after AH was removed? No? So, maybe they just blamed AH for no valid reason? They probably wanted to get BiS items without any efforts, and earn lots of $$$ from RMAH? But of course, harsh reality came into play...

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Bone2flesh wrote:

No ARPG has or had a complex trading system. Proving clearly they do not need one to succeed. WHY? Why would a business take the risk of doing that? It's stupid. If it's not broken don't try to fix it. Words to live by. Thanks for making my case for me.

I'm going out for drinks.

Peace.

I agree that SSF playstyle is more "natural" for ARPG. I'd like to have SSF in PoE, granted they balance it around that. I know, i could play SSF league in PoE, but then, i remember how much time it takes just to get 6 trials for Uber Lab for EVERY character, and i dont want to play SSF anymore! It just takes too much time for NOTHING. It's like playing Titan Quest with 100 times less droprates.